jake pogrebinsky

"... Problem is, having to go up against those with the capabilities for doing cast bronze figuratives and most of the time I lose. The presence of forged and welded steel is next to nothing in these art shows and going in with leaves, twists and scrolls like what someone could buy from King metals just isn’t going to cut it!..."(Spears)



Spears,neat texture!Good for you,to be addressing something that thoroughly,as to be making texturing dies!Right on!

I must take issue with your statement above(trying to learn to quote,finally,see if it works(unsuccessful,oh well):
I believe that it's our job,as ironworkers,to educate the public INSPITE the kind of an impresion that the automated,dumbed-down production methods create.
Take Sam Yellin,for instance.As exellent of a smith as he himself was,the design elements that he mostly draws upon were ANCIENT.They were ambient in the European landscape of the times of his apprenticeship(s).(Also of the guys' that he had working with him).
The Craft was staggering,and dying,even then,and he did a LOT to resurrect it by simply employing the traditional,ambient smithing lore.
Now,comparing forged and cast work is weird to begin with,apples and oranges-like,but i think/hope we are on the same page here.And right here,on that very selfsame page,at a price of some research,and (much) thought,there's a TREMENDOUS opportunity to favorably showcase the plastic deformation of iron vs it's poor cousin,casting.(Non-ferrous especially).
It's not a problem,it's a challenge!!!
Best of luck with everything,and i'm terribly envious of your air-hammer,great job on all the tooling!

Given the "Ren" theme,one thinks of old European ironwork,one of my favorite periods to pilfer the design elements from.One experiment loosely based on such below.
Not entirely satisfying the way it came out(overworked,somehow),but perchance something can be made out of the great differentiation of mass in similar vein.Maybe just a widely peened area offsetting a maximally drawn-down one,and a faceted ball,this time.
This one is 5/8" round.

Clay,thanks,and very good point:
The sq.holes would be good,but challenging to orient correctly.
The keyed holes would be best.Keys,of course,oriented in the direction of most beef remaining around the opening,but yeah-very sound technology,and necessary.
The hook ends are simple as can be:Worked over the radiused near-edge of anvil,peened wider if desired,incised in the same position,and if need be,corrected over a radius on the far edge.
The transition from beefier stock to flat helps in rolling them up by providing more resistance.The scrolling done across the anvil,toward oneself.Very easy element to make.

Bob,i'll have to fire every one of them,the entire layout dept.,and the photographer especially,whatever they all are smoking out there,it's a disgrace...
The whole idea was to give an illusion of depth,and so the whole deal stands off the wall close to 4".
The small camera of mine creates this fish-eye effect where the oblique shots look weird,i'll try a side view,and may just have to leave the rest to the imagination.The "installed" version may never come to pass,after all,if my stuff unexpectedly starts aquiring owners,what would become of all the good "starving artist" image that i've worked so hard and long to create?!
It's really a simple bar with 5 coathooks in a row,offset from the wall by a couple more inverted J-brackets.
The funky top bar connecting the two hooks serves as the reinforcement,a top chord in a truss,as the main bar is weakened by holes(and one can never overestimate the weight of outer gear that people in this State will pile onto a hanger,becides even the concealed unmentionables in the pockets...).
Thanks,Bob,for your kind words.My hope in posting this was that someone may see a solution to some design arrangement/detail,and would be able to resolve a problem in the planning stage,before having to forge it out,just to see what would happen.Something that i've often struggled with;have a heck of a time visualising stuff hypothetically.
Other than that it's not really anything to write home about.(Still have a hard time believing that it took 14 hours of shop-time.Maybe the shop boys need to be fired along with the rest).

The layout diagram(or what passes for one in this,half-a$$ed establishment )

Coatrack.21" wide.1020 cold-rolled,1/2" round(brackets 1"x 1/4").14 hours.Propane.
Wirebrushed,hot-waxed.


The last shot is of a quick prototype that inspired me to gang up a few of them.It's 1/2"round forged sq.Seemed heavy,so that the multi-hook job was forged down to about 3/8"sq.*

Rivets are sections of 40d nails,headed in situ,top and bottom simultaneously(as the great T.L. said,the sign of genuine old work was the poor quality/unsufficient head-mass rivets )

But,being as i'm too lazy to forge out my punch,and it's taper is quite short(in theory 1:7 is right,and it's way less),i pay very close attention to which way the cone of the punched hole is facing.Same as the pivot-pin in tongs,rivet is filling up a conical space,as also in a flush rivet principle.

The twists are sloppy on purpose.Again,the dig under the "authentic",old work.But mainly for the "hand-maid" effect:I see no future in competing against the cold-worked industrial standard.Also,i do try to work fast,and being persnikety about details can murder me on time and fuel.So,simply,i'm not good enough(yet)to work fast AND accurately.


The balance of the entire thing was by eyeball.I did diagram the general scheme,very quick and dirty-like.Here's a photo of the diagram,for s.&grins(next post,sorry).The letters denote r/l of twist,the numbers distances.Thought about expanding all into the 24" stud spacing,but decided not to bother.

I too was young once,and way overused the plain twist,then went through the stage of being reluctant to use it at all.Here,in this plain-ish,rectilinear design,it seemed appropriate.

The design was made as an attempt to woo a certain business in the nearby city,who seem to be doing good peddling stoves and accessories thereof to a(surprisingly,for our parts)upscale crowd.Or similar.So is a study in a certain look,and should be versitile and flexible enough.

It was an entirely gas job.Usually i find gas awkward,and reserve it for the most utilitarian forging.But my coal has run low,and had to save it for the most indispensible situations(welds,upsets,et c.,of which none was incorporated here on purpose).

Can't think of what else that i can say about this that someoneone would have any use for.Actually,even the name of the topic itself was redundant enough...
Cheers,all!

P.S.The one rivet per hook is not the best idea,ever.But once again,the economy of effort had precedence.

*I use no stock sizes/surfaces in finished work.The last few years the LG25 has made that easier.Now am looking at 2 months working away from home,minus the power-hammer,and will be back to "knocking the factory-look off" by hand.

Hey,that looks neat,looks like you were confident and quick about it!
Many moons ago i've ran across one,before i ever knew what "blacksmithing" even was.Seemed incredible that it could be done!Strangely,never made one myself... yet...
Great job!

Yes,Bob,very much so.And even,(if possible) more challenging than wood,as you can't see the grain flaws often.
Many things change,in my experience.The "brashness" becomes much more of an issue,at fullered sections in particular.As a matter of fact i believe that one needs to use larger radius of all fullers on WI because of that.And watch it carefully with over the edge of an anvil work.
Also,harmonics.It's considerably easier to bounce off a fragile element from an insufficiently supported end of work while working on it's opposite end.Dampening the vibration is one solution,but in essence it changes the very strategy,the sequence of operations.
I'm sure that this list of differences can be considerably enlarged upon by everyone present!
And that's why sometimes with a sigh of relief i fall back onto some new,fresh,cold-rolled 1020 or the like,and remember this friend of mine,who came out of a liquor store each evening with a half-rack of the absolutely cheapest beer,and always said:"How they make it so good,and sell it so cheap?!"We're very lucky to have access to all that new,predictable mild,it truly is a priviledge.
Both have their particular points,i'm very glad that this discussion was brought up,as these differences are very important.Thanks,everyone.

Thanks,Matt,i was trying to be overly categorical,as usual.Didn't know that the Mn is added to fight the deleterious sulfur effect.I believe that it's why the Swedish-smelted iron had such a good reputation,they,longer than the industrialised England,kept using charcoal in their smelters.
But the fibrousness does also define the WI for me.It more than the other properties make it a different material to work with,in many ways.Definitely requiring a methodology of it's very own.
Sometimes after an extensive project working WI i've gone back to mild with gratitude and relief(as i by then be dreaming of it's,mild's,homogenious structure).WI can trip you up unexpectedly quite easily,is very organic in it's nature and composition .

Southshoresmith,as far as getting WI everyone who responded,together,have created a very clear picture:It's around.Not as a steady supply,but certainly in sufficient batch sizes,tons,even,if really necessary.That,the batch,or the amount needed for a given project,is all that matters.That brings us to the second important fact:
There's no such creature as "WI".It's simply a collective name for structural steel of yore.Period.
It's C content can range from 0 to 2%.It's working qualities-from cold-,to hot-short.It's chem.composition from Fe to the rest of the periodic table.
Yellin specified,and went to battle for,the Triple-refined architectural...et.c.,and still was forced to experiment and come to grips with each large batch,especially when changing the supplier.That's all a given,so moving on:
You've brought up some very valid,to me-very important differences in working the WI.(Let the term imply what we all like it to imply:Low C,cold-short,fine-fibered iron,wonderously soft).
That,it's plastic qualities,and the techniques of working of the material contingent on said qualities,is what we try to fake with mild steel.Not always successfully.The look of forged WI is what we all covet,and it's a tough call.
But a very noble call nonethe less.So,good to hear that you're working on something neat of the sort,the best of luck with it,and would be great to hear the story,see the results if possible,of course.Thanks for bringing all this up.

Yes,quite so-the Iron Age took place at different times for different folks.The Chinese were capable of casting iron around 500-600 B.C.(that's 1400 years before us white devils),as well as forge-welding bronze and iron together.
Juxtposition of Iron and Bronze seems odd to me as well,as they're very different materials,and many a culture used both ferrous and non-f. metallurgy simultaneously(as we do now).Technically speaking,a bronze sword is plenty sufficient for it's job,to poke or to dice-up a human.Better,in fact,than the many iron experiments in the early centuries.
The difficulty in unraveling much of history is thinking too rationally,as humans were historically poor in rational,and vastly rich in myth and funky mores.The Indonesian peoples were comfortable pattern-welding most complex patterns,yet had a taboo against plowing earth with an iron-tipped share(they weren't the only ones).
Some tribes in Eastern Siberia were forging away at the religious objects(forgewelding is often plainly visible),yet used almost no iron in weapons or tools(there are many materials in this world eminently better suited for a specific task).Inuit in Greenland,Tlingit in S.E.Alaska cold-forged meteorite and ingot copper respectively,none of it for practical reasons.
And,one can also say that nothing ever changed:Iron forging is a function of plastic deformation of iron,using heat and pressure.Rock,anvil,or an injection into a mold,all achieve the same end,by the same means.

Dave,it just so happened that i've built a set of 6 hinges this winter,for a falconer fellow.For hus bird's barn,a neat timber-frame.Not sure how proud i'm of a result,but here it is,for what it's worth...
(He was very happy with it,and now wants a latch in 3-D,i'm hoping to do somewhat better maybe this time...)

Thanks,Bob,that sounds like an interesting tool,very tempting!It's just that i'm such a BLACKsmith,that expanding into toolmaking is mind-boggling.The present info about the adze is a good example of how challenging even just the theoretical issues are.
But,sooner or later one must venture...(But not into molesting a straight razor!That must be some scary ultra-high C steel...).I do have a large,electric tempering oven of late,that goes over 2800F,and has a pyrometer.It's high enough for quenching,and makes it a LITTLE more realistic,especially for O-1(that needs to be held at austenising temp),i also have some W-2.
Another neat tool that sticks in my mind is the Portugese adze,Enxo(en-sho),a very wide,short,and extremely steeply bent tool.So much so,that it curves over one's hand like a rapier guard,only extending down to the base of the wrist.It's reputed to have a crazy control,for work both micro and macro.Handled with a short,straight handle,it simply has a chunk of allthread through-bolting the blade to it.

Too many tools!And each requiring very thoughtful approach,to say the least.But thanks a lot for the encouragement,and the info!

Thank you,very much,for such an expanded answer,this is very clear,and most germaine.

I've made an iron for a friend,to be attached to a grown crook by him.The pattern came from the U of Fairbanks Native Studies carving lab.There,just as in the Chilcoot carving coop that i've spent time visiting years ago,really nice irons were joined to REALLY nice crooks by ugliest means possible-hose clamps,usually...

I keep meaning to try to reverse-engineer some sort of a tension/strap type of attachement,but haven't yet.

Being lazy about designing/building a drift for a compression-type eye has stopped me thus far from building that same carver a radiused sculptor's adze,but i'm finally moving on it.

The crooked knife,yes...THE most useful,as well as graceful tool.I've a pattern for a really nice one hanging on the shop wall(and over my head).But the original was so slender and flexible that the metallurgy involved intimidates me still.

Anyway,thanks again for all the info.

Ed,you've done good on the forging,but the proportions and the action do not seem quite right,frankly-with the cut of this width the force needed may be more than that hammer handle that you've used can comfortably accomodate.
Of course,if it works for you,then it's just great,however,personally,i'm very interested in the info that came out so far in this topic.
SGropp,i'm not sure that i quite got that,"tip...90 deg.to bevel",would you mind terribly to elaborate a bit more?Thanks in advance,(and to you too,Bob).

Hope that i didn't come off sounding rude on all that,beg pardon if so.But info like that is rare enough,and tool building is critically dependent on such(vs.the ornamental iron).I've hand bowl/gutter adze in the works presently,and would really appreciate any/all feedback.

That's WAY cool,Paul,i really like how it's forged,ALL over.And the snail is cool beyond words! :)

LeeRoy,thank you for asking,but i could never have any claim on any of the age-old forged shapes,it was all patented by the Creator a long time ago...
It would please me greatly if i,indeed,have stumbled across something that a fellow-smith would find useful,so please,forge away!Ahead!And all other directions!

Yes,all of the above vegetables would be nice!Provided that they were present in the sub-arctic most times of the year...I do need to address that garden,but it's the storage that is the biggest challenge around here.

Here i try to be all serious and solemn,and look what happens!Till i got on this here internet i was the laughingstock of only the one small indian tribe...

No,Jonh Henry i ain't.He at least had the sense to get 'im a real job.

Bentiron,i make a living as an offical village idiot.Not that it pays very well,but at least nobody would let me starve to death(would make the whole community look bad).And all of it pays better than blacksmithing!

Here's what's for dinner.I'm actually surprised at what good shape this meat's in,it(we all)had a rough winter.It's for dinner till the fishing opens in June.Well,hopefully there will be some birds in there somewhere,if the spring ever comes.

Thank you guys again for the kind feedback,and i do apologise for the blather(it hurts my head too,Michael),i don't indulge in such discussions lightly,or often...

Bob,i think that you've put it best.My hat's off to ya for such a clear view on things.I should read Pye,haven't come across his stuff yet.
Yes,at least a part of this goes clear to the mid-1800's,Ruskin,W.Morris,J.Ashton & "The Arts and Crafts Movement".I'm not an educated man,and only know of it all in a very shallow manner.

But that is a big part of what we struggle against,as craftsmen,as far as the informedness of a customer goes,the economy that values our labor,and more.

In a way,i view the hand-work as a way to sabotage all these tendencies.Attempt to work in such a way as to avoid the direct competition with the box-store culture,to go instead somewhere where they cannot follow.

I love machines(most of my time is swallowed by rebuilding an ancient steam engine right now),just like i love guns,it's just that to each tool-it's own correct usage.
And if the use of the powerhammer affects my design(and i believe that it does),affects my work,AND,puts me in direct competition with the forces that i'm powerless against,i tend to want to deal with it,somehow.

Well...I see that i didn't convert anyone to Animism,nor the idolatrous worship of Random Factor...Darn!

I hear all that you fellows are saying,and think that you're quite correct.Actually,i see nothing contradictory in anything written above,but rather see all that info as mutually complimenting.

In the interest of yet further completeness,i'd like to add these loose thoughts:

Forging predates the Industrial Age by,oh,conservatively 4600 years.The last couple hundred years during it,a number of changes were introduced into forging:Machinery,the greater power stemming from the machines,and the very rectilinear symmetry stemming from the machine-building process itself(to name only a few).

In the many preceding centuries before machines,a number of factors-human physiology,the deformatory peculiarities of Fe(+C),and all the complexities of human social behavoir(be it a need for a weapon or an elaborate grille in a cathedral),ALL these were tumbling and shaping each-other,like the pebbles and the stream.

Some hammer moves,some design elements,were copied and repeated again and again,some fell by the wayside,there are many ways to look at it all.The way that I like to look at it,what i'm seeking in that whole pile,is the COMMONALITY of certain detail,curves,proportions,angles of the corresponding parts.
Pig-like,i root therein.And what i root out i attempt to utilise in a way that will make my ironwork universally appealing.

For ME,the path therein lays soonest by means of a hand-hammer.The path of discovery of why that adze looks so neat,or that very crude trivet is more appealing than this one.

Naturally,we all do things in a (seemingly(couldn't resist )different way!

All you guys are entirely too kind...Really interferes with one's self-denigration,that i've invested so much in...Thank you,i really do appreciate it.

Frosty,i may have to think about that one longer...But very briefly,the difference between the hand and the power hammer is a stage,one stage removal,if you will,from the whole of you.
A hand-blow cannot be aimed(in the conventional sense,XYZ axis).The blow itself is a section of an arc,the angle between one's arms is what?60-70-odd degree?The mass and the shape of the hammer and the anvil are quite unevenly matched.(Matching them,as in top/bottom fuller,say,takes one close to the realm of even/measurable/symmetric...Swage,in other words(closER,at least)).

And here i'll make a stab at a goofy thesis:

A wild(imperfect) blow at the anvil distorts the work in a random way.That "random" issue is a factor,a function of plasticity of material,it's crystalline "bounce".

A blow attempting to correct that is also flawed,contributing to randomness(though cerebrally one's trying to bring it back under "control"(?).Et c.

As a result,the stubborn material imparts more of it's own will to the finished shape.The smith rolls with it more,having less control.The result reflects the MATERIAL,it's magic,rather than my (squalid)cerebrality.*

The onlooker percieves this instinctively.You,i,an uneducated person iron-wise,we all share that.When Fibonacci tried to codify it mathematically,it was THAT that he was digging at.The glimpse of the eternal,the molecular,the genetically shared.(Well,you already knew that i was nuts )
Naturally,THAT does not exist in a vacuum,we'll always be bringing something from ourselves into the work,but mechanising it does change the ratio,methinks.

* It's understood that we're not talking forging space shuttle parts here :P

Good for you,to practice so dilligently.Very significant upset,and most valuable memory-building,both muscle and the brain sort,to plan for the future work.I'm impressed,and wish you the very best in your progress.

Thomas,please use any and all of it,no "credit" necessary,and enjoy!Great forging to ya!

Thanks again,guys.If i may ramble a bit,i'd like to,about that fork handle in particular.(Brian B.,you're an inspiration for very many,myself included,as far as HANDforging goes in particular.Just making this an opportunity to say that,since the intuitive hand/eye business preoccupies me(progressively more)).

The detail of the handle was riveted on as a balancing device,both visually and physically.
Another determining factor was repeatability,even if in some loos-er sense,because it'll be a part of a set of barbique tools.A detail that would not be too difficult to ad-lib upon.

The reason that it had to be done is,first,misjudgement(not enough stock mass on that end),that in turn stemms from my attempt to work intuitively,vs cerebrally.

And that's what i wanted to say:THE most challenging aspect of design+forging is that balance between the sound planning and allowing the iron+one's brain to interract FREELY.
IMHO,et c.,et c.,as i find it a VERY difficult subject that likes to spill into forging vs fabrication,AutoCAD vs doodling,and other,old and poorly constructive back-and-forthing.

Grant,as i'm very remote,i often sell the hardware with the provision that the client can locate their own mounting holes,and the like.But yes,that flange goes flat on the wall,with the arm articulatig 180(making it quite inconvenient to tear off a sheet,as it'll move on ya,but that's my contribution to the global warming-use less of that disposable junk!I just use my pants,or my dogs to wipe my hands on.OK,kidding:It's a poor design from eons back that i've resurrected upon the specific request).

As to you other question,well...Years ago,the local charitable organisation has granted me the money to buy my powerhammer(actually,the money was supposed to go for education,but...).
Anyway,in RE-wording the grant proposal(like they do),it came out sounding loosely like this:
"That JP deserves support because his junk,in crude and homely way,fits in very well with the "rustic"(dirty,uncouth,hillbilly)cabin-lifestyle that so many in our State pursue..."

So,i'm just following the directions from above...How's that for an answer?

Cheers all,Jake B)

Thanks,guys.(Fe,technically speaking-it's a paper towel roll,i should've thrown something in for scale).
None of the above is small,the fork is a couple feet long,1" rd,et c.

For strictly visual stuff i use,primarily,the products of the local dump.LG25 helps a lot with bringing the stock down to both the uniform and managable size,or much of this would not be practical(or even less so,i should say).
(Almost)deliberately the bits in the LG are an old,mismatched set of drawing dies,so as to force me to work by hand primarily.

After a number of years at the anvil a number of harebrained theories nag at me,having to do with the difference in the appearance and the overall quality of work,as determined by the process:Hand hammer/coal,vs powerhammer/propane.
The former,(to me)represents quality,the latter-expedience.
Of course,it's not that cut'n dried.