George Geist

Mild or cold rolled should work fine. Just don't overheat them. Keep them cool. In the water after every heat and they should work as good for you as anything else.

George

Forgemaster Blacksmith model is excellent. A new one out there now called the Hypona is good as well. In fact I think if I were in the market for a new gas forge I'd go with the Hypona. It's exactly what you're looking for.

One comment I'll make about fuel efficiency. Years ago when I was hanging around diesel trucks a bunch of drivers were talking about fuel economy. I remember one guy saying "You don't send a boy to do a man's job" "When you send a man to do a man's job you have to feed him like a man". "Fuel economy is not an issue when it's necessary to move 40 tons over hill and highway so if you want good mileage go drive a Toyota."

I really feel the same way about gas forges. The best ones aren't fuel efficient. Get something that will get your metal hot. Something you can weld in. Propane is cheap and plentiful so fuel use or lack thereof should be pretty low on the priority list.

Best of luck to you.

George

I believe in the UK and Ireland that would be generally known as a concave shoe. The fuller referred to in the titles refers to what you might know better as a creaser or creasing tool. 

Essentially it's making your own concave. I'd venture to guess there was probably a time when that type section wasn't always mass produced in factories so it needed to be handmade.

I have never seen concave bar made with a hardy swage before; It seems surplus to requirement, when you can just concave a bar by knocking one of the corners off. Is it a new thing? 

To my knowledge no. I believe it's a very old traditional British shoe. Concave is as you say tapered on one side. This stuff is sort of trapezoidal in cross section so is a bit different. Traditionally on fronts they'll fuller all the way around but on hinds they'll leave the toe unswaged as you see. Makes for a really nice looking job.

George

Here's another one of them being made and used in a competition but do yourself a favor and turn your sound down if you watch this one:

George

What's a tool and fuller shoe? It's not something I've ever heard of.

Have a look here:

Gives a good look at the swage block too. He only gets it about half done but it'll give you the general idea.

For more pictures of such shoes come visit the horseshoers forum ;)

George

Went out to the shop to get a shot – sorry about the poor detail. Mine was not as similar as I had thought but similar none the less. It appears sawn from a solid block rather than forged and has one large central slot and five narrower slots running from it to the sides. The single slot swage is forged and the closest swage is for caulking horse shoes.

Correct, the forged single slot one on the right is also for horseshoeing. That block is used for making what's known as a tool and fuller shoe. Is seldom seen in this country outside of competitions but is a pretty common shoe in England and Ireland.

George

Southern CA means I either have to  go with "cheap coal" from Utah, buy the good stuf locally for $27 per 50 lb. bag, or buy it by the ton and still pay $20 a bag, and have it shipped from the other side of the country.  Cheap? Not really.  Cheaper than charcoal in the long run? Don't know, but I know places that sell a 50lb bag of charcoal for less than the coal, but not enough less that I'd wanna roast my self out or deal with charcoal's fire fleas when I don't have to.

I keep hearing you guys on the west coast talking about coal it makes me wish I could come out there and open up a coalyard ;)

Seems the demand is definitely there anyway.

I'd say first start out with these people: http://www.penncoal.com/wst_page4.html

They'll send it anywhere bagged and palletized.

Is plenty of other sources online but I think if you all would really put your heads together and get organized about it you could have it brought out there by rail car. That'd make it just as cheap as anywhere else.

George

Not much different than the rest of you guys. Had a pretty good shop in Jr High and High School. Took every metal shop class I could. Also through most years growing up and thereafter have always been involved in some capacity or another with horses. Being a metalworking enthusiast as well as being with horses getting into shoeing was a pretty natural fit. Upon graduation attended a horseshoeing school and have pursued that trade for 33 years now.

I notice a pretty large percentage of smiths begin their lives as horseshoers. I figure that's where I fall in.

Although horseshoeing can be good for money the shop work is the real fun for me. Is a great trade

I believe it is. That make had a cylindrical hole going up through it supposedly to make it easier to temper. I'd suppose there is some validity to that as anvils made that way you don't see chipped edges on them as much as you do solid ones. MFC anvils boast doing it for that reason today but don't mention that American Star had that idea about 150 or so years before they did. That hole also gives it some harmonics and makes it a real ringer. Value? Depends. Whatever one is willing to pay like anything else but absent that whatever the price of scrap iron per pound right now is at least a bottom line.

George

Toe calks.

Old horse shoes that required toe calks (sharp for winter use on ice or blunt for agricultural field use) had rivet pegs on back of them to be upset into holes on a shoe or other times were just welded on. Either way a die swage tool like that was a necessary tool to get that done. Oftentimes such dies can be seen on old foot operated calking vices as well.

Nice score ;) 

Any chance it might be for sale?

George

Good score. That particular model is about the best one in the JHM line.

Enjoy it :)

George

How old is it?

They were one of the first gas forges on the market. Find out if it's got an electric blower or an atmospheric venturi.

Those kind often had electric blowers which many guys don't like. (was my first gas forge and worked ok for me)

Be sure it has a good liner. The older ones didn't have a stone bottom so flux ate up the soft refractory pretty fast if you didn't find a way to protect it. They didn't have doors on them either.

Outside of that it'll get metal hot just as good as anything else I suppose.

I'm thinking you should probably get a pretty good deal on it if you're not bothered by the stuff I mentioned.

George

Any of you guys know where one could get drawings or blueprints of brick or masonry forges?

Something that could be handed to a mason with instructions of "here you go get it done"

I'll buy them if any of you guys have them or would be appreciative if you could point me to a source.

George

This is a tough one. I too am a firearm enthusiast as well as a user of anvils. Yes a Hay Budden is a great thing. However, in this case I think I may have to be contrary to popular opinion.

As I see it, the days of private firearm ownership (especially of politically incorrect looking makes and models) are numbered in this country. Guns you sell or get rid of don't ever come back. Anvils last for thousands of years will never be illegal and will always be around.

Keep the rifle save your money and buy an anvil. They're all over e-bay all the time. If you're not already a member you need to join the NRA too ;)

George

seriously, I haven't bought in a while, because I buy it 20 tons at a time. Try Fisher Mining Company in English Center Pennsylvania................hot burning stuff!

I've hit upon a pretty good source of nice coal in Mechanicsburg. Only downside for most guys is you have to go get it yourself. Not practical for anybody but locals but is good coal.

Stuart when I eventually run into you someplace I'll bring you some to try if you're interested.

George

Been there a few times. Definitely one of America's best kept secrets. Is without a doubt the most picturesque state I've ever been to. Very beautiful place.

Has not just lots of smithing activity but plenty of whatever might interest you. Is something for everybody there.

Sounds like you'll be making a good move. *

George

* As an interesting aside to it check out a place called Point Roberts. Is a little piece of Washington that can only be gotten to by land through Canada.

I think I have you all beat. I bought one like that 200# for $125 (the guy was asking $150) back in 1980-something.

Granted that was a while ago but they haven't appreciated that much. I'll agree with everybody else and say too much money.

Hey Josh,

I know there is no specific "Navy" model. However, didn't Fisher have the government contracts to produce anvils for the Navy?

I thought so anyway and that does look like deck gray paint on it. Interesting.

George

That's interesting.

I was taught that it made for a better nailhole without the sharp corners. Not sure really how important that is in a horseshoe which isn't going to last forever anyway, but certainly did IMO make them much more aesthetically pleasing. Also tends to make an imperfectly stamped nailhole not look quite as bad.

Is interesting to see old shoe boards especially from Standardbred shoers were usually punched oval. Sharp and rectangular is a pretty recent trend. I even used to go over machine mades with an oval punch to make them look right ;)

George

Surely you don't mean you paid $100 for all of that. That would be a deal of a lifetime!

Even the original asking price of $250 was a deal.

Good score ;)

George

George and Charles, Ref beveled heels, I posted that query on horseshoes.com a few days ago, and Jack Evers of Montana says yes, they are obsolete. He hasn't cropped and filed heels in years. He gave a formula for how to hammer finish a heel while the branch is straight, and then bend it to fit to get proper heel cover. I had other questions. Jack and I went back and forth under the "General Discussion" section.

 

Not picking on Charles about spelling. That quotation was from a Kinko's handout that I saved.

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"Rock your creaser along like an ol' P38 can opener."

     Frank Turley

I like to file the bevel into a hammer finished heel anyway. Is just what I'm used to.

Another thing we don't see much of anymore is oval headstamps on plain stamped shoes. Everybody seems to use sharp rectangular ones now.

Good to hear hs.com had some activity. The slow miserable death of that website has been a shame.

George

I learned to shoe in the U.S. before the Brits came over and showed us their way. We would crop the heels at an angled bevel with half-round hardies and hot-file finish. I see on youtube that many of the heels are hammered to shape without a noticeable bevel. Is the beveled heel becoming obsolete?

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"Never forge weld with a horse on the floor."

     Farrier instructor Charles "Dick" Dickenson

Is a very good question and hasn't escaped my notice either.

Your post prompted me to start a thread about that subject on the other website.

George

Check out  Pa Artist Blacksmith Assoc- www.pabasite.org. Good group of guys, next meeting is the 1st sat in Oct up is Stroudsburg. Also look up Stuarthtesmith on this site- he's in the area. Lotsa folk not too far from you. Make some contacts, meet some people and start hitting hot metal.

 

Steve

Ditto that

Yes,

An excellent deal. Good score.

I started out in 1980 with the same stuff. Back then that same anvil which I still have cost $400 new. Served me well for many years. Shod a lot of horses and made a lot of things with it. The double cliphorn is a nice feature to accomodate a lefty if necessary. Some guys don't like the flattish horn or it's being hollow. They were the biggest complaints. I never found either of those things to be a problem. It was nice for throwing in and out of a truck yet big enough to do anything I ever needed to do including making shoes for heavy drafts.

The forge was one of the first commercially available gas forges. Although there are better ones out there (most guys prefer venturi blown atmospheric) it is still a good useable forge that will sure enough get your metal hot.

George

Ok thanks. ;) B)

Georg, I hope we can answer questions from our black smithing brothers and sisters, exange ideas with other farriers, and share what we do. Thanks for chimeing in,

Sure thing Charles, is a few of us around here ;)

George