HWooldridge

Don't be too quick to pitch the elbow band. I hammered over 20 years with no elbow or arm pain until I suddenly blew some tendons a couple of years ago. I managed to accomplish this feat by going out to the anvil cold without warming up and attacking a big piece of steel with a 3 lb hammer. Thought I was a goner but I bought an arm wrap and used it religiously for about 2 months. This allowed me to continue working, my tendons healed with the regular exercise and the band kept everything together. I am now back to a nude arm... :shock:

Almost everyone recommends keeping your thumb off the handle so try a softer grip with thumb on the side. Unfortunately, thumb-on-top was how I was taught and I can't seem to "unlearn" it but apart from that one incident, I don't experience chronic pain. I'm also not a doc nor am I endorsing anything but Aleve really helps on those occasions where I have a twinge. It is an anti-inflammatory and helps to reduce swelling, which can cause pain even when you aren't working.

As Daryl said, thin the handle to where it's comfortable - most handles are too big in section. Farriers also seem to like very long handles - try a shorter one and see if you like it. Play with your anvil height. I'm six feet tall in my socks but prefer a lower anvil because I have monkey arms and can tolerate heights that would probably be comfortable for someone 5'6" or shorter. A high anvil makes me choke up and tighten my grip.

Don't be afraid to experiment - pain is no fun... :wink:

Daryl,

That's why I like jackhammer stems with an integral collar for cutoffs. All one has to do is forge the shank and the working end.

Other notes on cut-offs: Mine are very thin in section and slightly radiused over the edge long ways, i.e., it's not flat across like a wood chisel but curves and drops off at the edges. In addition, the edge is beveled only on one side so one cuts very close to 90 degrees and the other leaves a wedge end on the cut piece. I can turn the hardy to get whatever desired end I want.

Hi Ed,

I work on a 250# Peter Wright or a 100 lb "no-name". The big one is my main "battle anvil" so it's the one that sees daily use and has a 1-1/4 hardy hole. All of my general use hardy tools - like the cut-off - are forged from a solid piece but I make a lot of quickie jigs and often take a piece of 1-1/4 flat and bend it into a "U", then weld it to a plate. At that point, I can weld anything I want to the plate. If the "U" is 4-6 inches long, it will not typically jump around anymore than a solid tool. I do this because 1-1/4 square solid stock is not something I usually keep around the shop.

Jock over on Anvilfire has recommended against a tight fit in the hardy hole due to the possibility of creating a wedge effect and breaking the heel off the anvil. Coincidentally, when I bought my PW, I found it had cracks progressing from both rear corners and the heel was close to falling off. I gouged out the cracks until I had good metal and then rebuilt it back with weld material. The other problem with an overly tight fit is getting the tool stuck.

A professional smith I know uses the lock-in method on one of his anvils (he has two near the forging area). He welds a nut to the bottom of a piece of square tubing and uses a large bolt running thru a big washer to hold the tool in place. This firmly locks the tool and he has no problems with anything moving when he doesn't want it to. After I saw his setup, I made a couple of tools for my small anvil that had a small loop welded to the end of the shank. This anvil sits on a steel stand so another loop welded on a leg allows hooking a spring between tool and stand. I also discovered it's best to make some sort of hand tool to grab the spring quickly or you are fighting it but after a while, I didn't see the need for this much complexity so I abandoned the idea and went back to my other methods.

I post all of this just so a beginner can see there are lots of different ways to get a bottom tool to stay in the anvil. I also have several vises mounted around the forging area so I often put a tool in each vise and leave them there for whatever time is required.

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Glenn,

I agree that the final product appearance is important but so is the time it took to get there - especially in a small production shop such as mine. It may take me all day to get a prototype done but I often make jigs as I go - to assist in whatever repetitive work comes when it is produced en masse. However, when I'm done making jigs and creating a work instruction, making the piece should then go as fast as possible. I make over 40 items in production so I have to be able to go back to something six months later and make it properly and quickly without "reinventing the wheel".

Mr Moore may have said that quote, but he would have fired the smith who took twice the time that the next guy used to make the same thing. Number of heats is an indicator of skill - if Smith X can properly forge an item in 3 heats and Smith Y takes 6, then Y is doing something incorrectly - given the same result. Doesn't make any difference if they are using hand tools or a power hammer - proper tool manipulation is critical.

Time is money...Hollis

I make a lot of scrolls. I seldom use heat after the first 6 inches are done but use a pair of bending forks to take little bites and scroll the large part cold. As has been said, it's not like doing burglar bars on a Hossfeld. For example, a leg for one of my standard plant-pot holders has a fishtail scroll at the bottom and a split, double back scroll at top. A single piece starts at 18 inches long and ends at 12-3/4. I make these frequently and have it down to 4 heats on the bottom and 3 heats on the top - this is moving right along with no hesitation. Three of these legs go on one holder - that's 21 heats just for the supports but I work two or three bars at a time in the gas forge and not much time is spent waiting. At normal working speed, I can do six legs an hour when the forge is at temp, so about 1-1/2 minutes per heat.

Don,

That's exactly what it is - moisture. I had some coke that would go off repeatedly and throw pieces everywhere. I push the fresh coke in from the side and it usually heats up enough to drive off the water without tossing shrapnel.

I prefer coal for all the wrong reasons - I like the smell and it takes some work to use - BUT - I use propane almost exclusively because I do a lot of production work. I can start it and forget it plus propane is real easy to get at the gas dealer two miles away.

My stick welder gets more overall use than anything because I am always fixing something, usually outside and usually dirty. Last week, my son was hauling a stock trailer home and the brake axle spun in the U-bolts, ruining two tires. He made it home and I was out til dark fixing that and everything else that broke since the last time he visited. The other tool I use constantly is my home made 2x72 belt grinder - it seems to run all the time.

As far as time savers, I have a piece of very small I-beam (1-1/2") that I drill over. The piece is supported firmly and all chips go in the channel. I can drill 50, 100 or more pieces without having to stop and clean all the time.

Other things - I have a multitude of pin and scroll jigs all over the shop. I make them in my spare time in different sizes so they are already there when I have to do a job and a certain scroll or radius is needed. I also have my chop saw sitting in a series of holes on my layout table and can move it to cut a variety of lengths with a material stop that can be moved to preset measurements. This allows me to cut anything from 3 to 24 inches without using a tape - just set the stop on the mark and start cutting.

Things I WANT to do - put overhead air, propane, electrical and water drops all around the shop so I don't trip on cords and hoses.

Chortle, chortle...

Those breaker bits your art teacher told you about were all I used in the early days for my hot tools - they work great. Try air hardening first because some are S1 so water quench is too harsh.

I bought 5 gallons of Texaco Quench-Tex about 20 years ago and still have most of it in an old milk can which has the flip top on a chain in case of fire and the metal body is safe in the shop. It is a thin mineral oil and works well for oil-hardening steels.

Mass is the key...under the hammer. Ever notice the difference hammering out on the end of a good anvil's horn? More harmonics and less rebound for the hammer. The primary problem with rail track is the thin section of web that joins top and base.

With this in mind, look for anything that is blocky or has its bulk under the work surface. A big piece of shaft mounted on end works well. I think the truck axle idea is a good one and so are the tractor weights but I would not go to the trouble of adding hard surface rod - just tack them together as you suggest and use it.

My $.02...others will add theirs:

1. I think coal or charcoal is the best fuel for a beginner but if they can spend some money, they could buy a propane forge. In some areas, propane is much easier to obtain and some neighbors don't like coal smoke. A torch is OK for small stuff but the student will probably get frustrated quickly on general work.
2. Anything that is block shaped with mass. We are so anvil-silhouette conditioned, we can't see the value of a big steel block.
3. Vise grips work fine for the short term.
4. Depends on what they want to make. Junkyard is a good learning experience but new stock guarantees consistency.
5. A lot can be accomplished with basic tools and some determination. Punching holes will require a bolster of some sort but the other normal blacksmithing operations are achievable.

Basic stuff - heat source capable of welding temps or at least a good yellow, 2.5 lb cross-peen hammer, anvil block, anvil stand, vise grips, some sort of vise (even small imported bench type), a variety of stock and a hack saw (or bolt cutters).

A & B. Go to a school or have an experienced smith show you some things. OJT is slow and laborious.
C. When they personally feel the need that the tools they are using are more of a hindrance than a help.

Rick sent me a PM with some questions on this but I thought I'd share some thoughts on the scroll form part of the thread.

A buddy of mine does large (24" OD) scrolls for gates and fences. He has a "lazy susan" type of bender that is nothing more than a two pieces of pipe, one inside the other, with a frame on top to accept different form jigs. He has material stands that can be set level with the bender so the whole piece is laid flat. He starts the scroll hot with about a 12" heat then winds up the rest of the stick cold after the interior is trapped in the form. The lazy susan has some lugs welded on so any convenient cheater bar can be used for leverage to do the bending. The whole thing is made from scrap and works well for the purpose.

Old hitch balls - read 1960's or before were sometimes drop forged from medium carbon steel and left unhardened. I have one that is two piece, shank thru the middle of an outer shell - very old, was on an old Jeep. It sparks like carbon steel. That was when you often saw small hitch sizes - 1-1/2, 1-3/4, etc. I think Irnsrgn is right about modern manufacture - CNC chucking lathe (big screw machine) is fast and almost hands free using bar stock. Everyone's advice on trying to harden one is probably the best way to check whether you can use one as a hardy.

A very good hardy can be made from those big air hammer, pavement breaker bits. I think they are S series steel or something similar. They are hexagonal stock and have integral collars that make nice shoulders to sit in the hardy hole. You can find them in junkyards or at paving contractors.

Thanks to all who responded. I decided to try Daryl's suggestion with the Dremel tool and it worked well. Went thru two of those little cutoff blades but it cleaned it up enough to get the snap ring back in.

There is a series of gunsmith books from Brownell's called Gunsmith Kinks - we should assemble our tips into "Blacksmith Kinks". It would be priceless information.

Later, Hollis

A treadle can "help" with drawing but it is not the right tool as the others have said. Clay Spencer shows how to do so with his demo - spring fullers that draw down the stock. Something you can do to help is weld a loop on top of the hammer head so you grab it with your off hand and assist your leg. The stock is slid between the fullers and you bang away with your whole body... :wink:

I also started like you with no power tools and wanted to make all my own blacksmith tools. I had a bunch of square 1-1/2 agricultural work bar and it was a real b*&^h to forge by hand! I wound up calling a friend over and we did a lot with a sledge. You might want to consider enlisting a victim...uh...partner.

Francis Whitaker had a 150 lb anvil and stated on several occasions that others could not do better work just because they owned a 400 lb one. Like Rich said, skill is more important than a bigger power hammer. In addition, some specialty tools help with certain sizes and volumes of work but a lot can be done with basic tools.

Although I have four now-grown sons, none ever showed any inclination to work with me so I had a one-man shop all my life. One of my most treasured and used tools is a treadle hammer that I built from the ABANA plans - it gets daily use. I also use a drill press a lot because I like to rivet stuff and never cared for hot punching. I use my power hammer frequently but not as much as you might think. The lathe and mill are seldom used but are convenient to make tooling. The MIG and TIG get equal time depending on the job.

A brief anecdote: I know a fellow who cashed out of another business with a lot of money and decided to become an artist-blacksmith. He bought a 15,000 sf building and stocked it with every tool you can imagine. He was pretty handy so learned to use all of them but the last time I talked to him, he was primarily making furniture by buying prefab Italian elements and welding them together. He had about 10 guys working for him who were all doing the same thing. His three power hammers sat silent for the most part and he finally sold the big ones. That vast collection of tools did not gift the world with a brilliantly talented, creative ironsmith but he did stick with the trade and now uses the right tools he needs to do the work that he has chosen.

Modern chain links are induction welded (I think that's the right term) so you see the little lump where the two surfaces meet and the excess flowed out to the sides. I think Bruce is saying that welding by hand is also easier on the side because the swage can be used under the power hammer.

I've heard that the weld on the end is supposedly stronger because in order to fail, the link must be bent and the weld broken, whereas on the side welded link, the weld is in direct line of pull. From a practical standpoint, the link will probably stretch first and either one will fail about the same time.

I had a Homer Simpson "Doh!" moment today that I'd thought to share with people that might appreciate it.

For you folks with mechanical power hammers, the ones with factory brakes often work on a camming action. I have owned a Beaudry Champion 100 lb for a number of years and always thought the brake did not stop the flywheel as fast as it should. The hammer ran hard but would coast to a stop in three, four or more cycles. I tried every adjustment I could see but without success, so I changed brake pads every six months or whenever the flywheel got to the point where it just kept cycling slowly. This didn't seem particularly dangerous but I didn't like it turning while I waited between heats.

So...today was my turn to change pads again. As I worked on it, I noticed the camming lever bolt was binding as I unscrewed it, so I stepped on the treadle to give it some slack. I then had an "Ah-hah!" moment when I noticed that the camming lever slot had been hitting the bolt all along because it was out of travel. Some past owner made a treadle linkage modification that put the slot so close to the bolt that a little bit of brake pad wear caused interference. I pulled the cam lever, cut out an inch and rewelded the ends back together, which put the bolt back into the middle of the slot.

I was then able to easily adjust the cam adjusting screw so I can now remove my foot from the treadle and the flywheel stops within a single revolution while running at full speed. Another side benefit of this is that I can run a looser flat belt adjustment because the cam action is so much more positive - the treadle can move farther and take up more travel.

The thing that "P's" me off is that I have been using this hammer almost daily for more than 15 years and studied at length on the problem - why did I see it TODAY?!? (I know, better late than never). At any rate, I can only recommend to look at ALL the adjustments when you have an issue.

I make my handles from ash then sand and whisker until they are smooth as a baby's posterior. I use Birchwood Casey's Tru-Oil for the final finish and steel wool between coats. If you haven't used it, y'all really should try the GOOP suggestion - it's pretty good stuff for this application.

G, I'll email one to you.

OT but there is a bunch of knowledge on this board so here's one for you machine repair guys. I have a hay rake that had a bad bearing on one of the rake beams so I pulled it off and disassembled it. There is a grease seal, snap ring and the two bearings that support the shaft. The problem is that the retaining ring broke so the bearing got to wobbling and smeared over the snap ring groove for about 30% of its circumference. Therefore, I cannot get a new ring back into place without recutting part of the groove, which is about .050 wide and the same deep. I don't want to take the time to put it in the mill and do all the setup to cut it plus there is the possibility of making the situation much worse if I screw it up. I think a little bitty cape chisel might work but I have to make one. Anybody ever had to repair internal grooves or have other thoughts on how to fix it?

Plain household GOOP is great for securing hammer heads. With good initial fit, they won't need wedges.

It's funny how violently opinionated people can be when it comes to tools - I knew a commercial art-smith in Houston some years ago who swore it was always better to buy rather than make hand tools. We argued about this for some time and I finally told him to go buy a pair of tongs and I'd have a pair made when he got back. This was a good bet because there was a BS supply place about 3 hours round trip from his shop. He cheated and bought two pair of tongs but I also cheated and made four pair while he was gone, so the pizza was on him. :mrgreen:

IMHO, it's always better to make your own tools unless it's something that is so complex that your time in production makes up for the cost. Making tools is one of the most valued items in the blacksmith's heritage - no other craft is as versatile.

I make a few things that start out with 6 feet of stock. I put material stands on either side of the anvil and work as best I can with the hammer. I also use the gas forge so I can take 18" of heat at a time.