woodforge

Apparently it is not possible for the members to stay on topic Glenn. A direct answer to a direct question was all I was looking for and the closest answer I got to it is to read more about Galvanic corrosion. Yeah, I did that. I've studied Chemistry. I know how to look & studied with digital microscopes and chemistry at shapes, thickness, pipe designs, patina, wood stems, etc. etc. and all the varied parameters involved there. BTW, its not a good idea to stick somebody elses tomahawk in a gas chromatagraphy flame anaylyzer to see what it was made of. I've worked with conservators and studied thousands of originals and fakes. I don't go by gut feelings. But unfortunately I didn't ask about all that. Getting off topic seems to be all there is available here.

Thanks for the attitude bigfoot. I'm sure you had something constructive to contribute but apparently it got lost in your rant. There is far more than iron to look at when authenticating--it is just one small piece of the puzzle. Yes there are many authenticators who should be horse-whipped for impersonating experts. Nice of you to lump me in with those. For you to claim I couldn't tell the difference is like YOU suddenly became the "expert authenticator" capable of passing judgement on all of us. Who died and put you in charge of all world knowledge? LOL You don't have a clue as to what I know about the subject and never will. Clearly you have a personal grudge against all authenticators and want to take it out on any or all of them. Thats fine. Take it somewhere else. Frankly if this is the kind of garbage I get from a 'senior member' then this forum has become a poor substitute for what it used to be. The worst con-artist is the one that fools himself Bigfoot. What a shame, this used to be a half way decent forum. Mod Note: This is a only one member talking not the Forum as a whole. Also this type of reply to comments has never been a proper way to share information.

I am not trying to make reproduction tomahawks. "I need to know a little about metallurgy because I am a tomahawk artifact authenticator so knowing everything I can about it helps me determine what was faked with accelerated corosion and what took place naturally." So the slag inclusions contain silicone (glass)? So following that logic would that mean that ALL pitting is caused by slag inclusions? I've seen steel pitted too and I doubt that had slag inclusions. Actually it is the uric acid in manure that makes it rust so any other strong acid or base will do the exact same thing at different rates. So will salt water. The problem is when people do this to their "repro" tomahawks and try to fake these as authentic original 18th or 19th C. ones. Literally millions of dollars a year are lost in this way.

Hi, I need to know a little about metallurgy because I am a tomahawk artifact authenticator so knowing everything I can about it helps me determine what was faked with accelerated corosion and what took place naturally. I am trying to figure out what exactly causes pitting in the primitive version of wrought iron made in the 16th-19th C. (not the kind made today which is probably better quality). I have read at least a couple different reasons that conflicted with each other and the third one was using terminology that lost me completely. One reason I read was that these were tiny galvanic cells that are reacting with the slag/impurities and the other said the slag was what prevented the pitting by spreading out the corrosion to the entire surface. Thank you,

Hi all, I have this hand forged antique wolf/bear leg hold trap which the previous owner had heated the leaf springs so they would lose their spring...sorry I don't know the correct termnology for that. Apparentlly he was afraid someone would hurt themselves on it since it has huge teeth on it, but I'd like to restore it to its original condition. Is it possible to put the spring back into the springs? And without removing the springs from the trap? Thanks, Mark

Hi, I am new to forging and have a peter wright 85 lb anvil which has a bit of a sag in the middle. It looks like it was beaten down enough that it sagged down like a worn out horse. It probably has a sag of 1/4" in the middle and goes gradually up toward the ends. The edges aren't that great either but okay. I read the anvil refacing BP but it appears to be concerning edges only. So my question is what can I do to fix this-- if anything? Thanks Woodforge

I have been trying to find out how I can tell the age of various axes by the way they were made. For example, I read that the Bessimer process was invented around 1855 and by about 1870 the process had been perfected, thus making it cheap enough to make axes of all steel. So my assumption then was that if the axe has "steeled" edges then it must be pre-1870. But then I ran into some problems. Apparently manufacturers were making iron axes with steeled edges up until about 1930! Okay, so now I am really confused. Why would some of the largest axe manufacturers like Collins Axe Co. and others still use steeled forged axes when it was apparently cheaper & easier to just drop forge it entirely of cast steel? It is the timeline here that I'm missing. Are there any conclusions I can draw concerning the date of manufacture of an axe by looking at the way it was manufactured? If it was drop forged can I say it was at least this x date or after? Yes, I know how to tell whether the axes have been steeled and no, I don't want to spark test any antiques axes. I realize these are general conclusions I am looking for and not absolutes. :confused: Thanks a lot, Woodforge

Ahh, that makes sense, thanks guys. I was scratching my head wondering how I was going to work on a hardy sticking out the side like that!

Well this is going to sound like another dumb question from a new guy but I can't help it. On either side of the waist or throat my anvil is a rectangular hole ~1/2 x 3/4". I originally thought these holes were connected & a hold down strap would go thru there however I now see it is only a few inche deep on either side & then is solid inside. So my question is what the heck is that? Thanks you:)

I can think of another danger from wearing a wedding ring that has nothing to do with blacksmithing! LOL

Hi Don, I'm in NE Ohio in Amish country so theres a chance I may get a bigger anvil at one of the Amish auctions--if only just to hear that beautiful ringing noise when you hammer it. If only I had a forge. And a place to put it! Mark

I thought I would introduce myself, name is Mark & I am ashamed to say I am not really a blacksmith but I want to learn about it. I do have a small English made 85 lb anvil & tools but no forge. The name woodforge I chose because I like to wood carve (not whitlin'-carving) and make handles for tools for other people & myself. The reason I got interested in blacksmithing is because I have collected old tools for 25 years now & for the last 15 years or so collecting tomahawks & Indian trade axes along with other Indian trade pieces. I have been writing a book on the subject of Indian Trade Axe makers for the last 7 years amasing over 550 different blacksmith names and marks from all over the world related to the fur trade axes which I am trying to track down. So naturally it makes sense for me to learn as much as I can about blacksmithing. I am trying to learn when various iron processes began, such as cast steel began around 1740 I believe but when was it used on an industrial scale to make drop forged items? What were the tools most used by a frontier blacksmith in the thickest wilderness? What are the best books to learn about how blacksmithing was done in the 1600's-1800's. I do have a link on ebay's guide section for anyone interested in identifying tomahawks & trade axes from reproductions or outright fakes. eBay Guides - Trade Axes Tomahawks--Authentic or Reproduction Well, heres to us all learning something! Mark

It is an artifact of the methods of making steel back then. So the "cast steel" axe could have very well been forged or dropforged to shape before stamping. Thomas Iyiyi, okay, let me see if I got this right. It sounds like the concensus among the majority of senior members is one MAY not really be able to tell just looking at an axe that it was forged, cast steel, drop forged or a combination of the forged & drop forged. Is that about right? I understand how to look for seams, ridges or file marks where ridges were removed and looking also for the darker steel edges on iron. But in the abcense of ALL those clues it looks like there is no way to tell (lets skip the grinding/spark test--these are antiques). :)

Robert, I would be careful with accepting everything on the TATCA website as fact. I would consider it all with a grain of salt & strongly consider getting other opinions. TATCA has some helpful information there but there are also mistakes. Such as the old ice harvesting axes from the 1888 Wm. T. Wood Ice harvesting catalog, the website claims may be misidentified in their own catalog & were probably tomahawks -- or the forged scythe handle parts found at dig sites that are referred to as tomahawks.

Hmm, interesting. There is no indication of a darker 'laid on' steel edge & all the metal looks the same other than those depressions I mentioned. Those depressions were the only indication I had it may be forged but now it looks like that is not necessarily so. This spark test is new to me. Do you mean if it sparks (say on a piece of flint where it won't do too much damage) it is probably steel & not iron? Thanks