maddog

Great! Let us know how it goes with the forge. If you have problems start a trouble shooting thread with pix. Some of the members here make and sell forges for a living.

You have a grinder already. Excellent. The 5" vice will be very useful but its not a smithing vice. It wont withstand serious hammering like a leg vice. Also the built in anvil will only take very light work. It's probably cast iron with a hollow interior. Nice for straightening nails. A real blacksmith's vice is as important as the anvil. And I don't care what they tell you in church, you just can't have too many vices

40lbs is rather light for an anvil. It's ok to start with since you will be staying with light stock for a while but IMO the minumum useful weight is 100lbs. 150lbs - 250lbs is generally the range for an anvil. Almost any compact block of steel, soft or hard will serve as an anvil. In any case, mount your block securely so that it doesnt bounce or walk when you hammer on it.


Practice metal: This depends on your style. Many will say steel is cheap and you shouldn't waste your time on scrap of uncertain quality. This is probably wisest. But I am a scrounger and I love to work with found material. I collect anything that has solid stock in it 3/8" or larger. I cut it up into rods, burn the paint off in the forge and hammer it. This has its risks. The paint might have lead in it, or a zinc coating under it. Even without that the fumes are not good for you. I turn the fan on high and open the doors. For a while, I also used rebar for practicing basic forging techniques. For the time being, stick to small stock, 1/2" or smaller and concentrate on hammer control and technique.

If you want to make your own tools, then you can collect coil spring, leaf spring, sway bars, axles etc...

But all this is moot until you have a working forge.

I want Jesus Hernandez shop too! Actually I'd be very happy if he just came over and straigthened mine out so it was as neat as his. Dust covers on the machines!! Criminy!

Here is a video showing the bare minimum for a working blacksmith shop. Actually this guy is a bladesmith!

Glad to hear you chose to use it as is for the moment... Anvil repair although possible is not something one should take lightly. Most times the risk of damaging the anvil far outweigh the value of the repair...

What Monster and everyone else said.

Liquid copper will wet onto steel quite easily with some borax to wash away the oxides. This is the traditional penny weld. Examples of copper coated steel are all over the place. Mig wire, grounding rods, cookware.

From what the bladesmiths say it seems its also possible to do a forge weld. It makes sense to me that if the two metals can bond in liquid phase they can do so as solids given the right conditions.

I have done a bit of brazing with a propane torch. It was a struggle, the work lost heat almost as fast as the little torch delivers it. I suppose one could do a copper "braze" with a propane torch on a small piece with some insulation. Perhaps mapp gas will do it.

Thanks kburd. Gonna buy them. I have three of Amit Har-Lev's videos. They were great to watch and I got something out of them but I found the content a bit disappointing. I should probably write a review.

I'll see what I can do. If I did rebuild, I would take the same approach, just use an 8" or 10" pipe instead of this 12" steel bucket and make the chamber 4" inside instead of 6".

I do like how the kaowool got stiff after the first use. It really locked the cast chamber in there really solid, it doesn't budge. I actually broke an identical chamber I made because they are so fragile so I'm actually glad that the wool has locked it in place.

Is ITC that's 2 years old still any good?

How does my original coat look?

Here are some better pictures.

Forge looks good. Fire it up!

A milling machine is very useful. I would be reluctant to give it up. Cant you get a drill chuck for it and use it for drilling? You could probably get the tooling for cheap on ebay. Well only you know your priorities. If you need to get it on a truck, call a tow truck. If you set up the rigging yourself it shouldnt cost $50 to have a tow truck lift it onto the bed of a PU truck

I've been hesitating on buy Aspery's books because of the price. I've spent too much money on other smithing books that in the end were rather disappointing. But after watching some of his YouTube videos and reading the comments here, I am going to have to buy them.

A couple of years after I started swinging a hammer, I developed tendinitis. I switched to a hofi hammer hammer and trained myself to use his hammering technique. The tendinitis never came back and my hammering became much more effective.

Mostly I use a Hofi style hammer with a rounding face instead of the cross pein. I have four Hofi style hammers made by Tom Clark which are beautifuly made. One forged Hofi hammer from Big Blu which is good but the finish is disappointing considering the price. The cast version is much nicer. I also have a 1.75lb "czech" hammer which I bought from one of the blacksmith supply houses. I recieved it in terrible shape. It was out of square in every axis and I spent several hours reforging and regrinding it. Now its a great little hammer, though quite a bit lighter than it was originaly.

When I took Frank Turley's class, he expressed some skepticism about square faced hammers. I think because they limit the way one addresses the anvil. It wasn't easy for me to ignore advice from Frank but the Hofi was working well for me and I didn't want to take risks with my arm so I stuck with it.

Today was the last full day for Darren. I got some pics this afternoon as Brian was hardening and tempering Darrens fullering hammer. That is one fine looking hammer. We weighed his haul of tools he will be taking back with him and it is around 62 pounds worth. He is in good shape. It was a pleasure working with him, and feel as if we have kindled a long lasting friendship.

What is that hexagonal shaped hardy tool?

You guys are missing the boat here.. I cut lots of plate with a carbide toothed metal blade on a regular old skill saw.. I have a torch, and a track burner... heck I even have a CNC pattern torch... and I still cut most of my straight cuts with a skill saw.. its fast, easy, clean and cheap... You can cut 1/2" plate with a saw faster than you can torch cut it and have a machined looking edge... Dont knock it till you try it..

amazon blade info


I cut 4' of 3/4 plate with my saw just the other day.. took almost 5 min to cut the sheet in half.. but cutting 1/2" you could cut 4' in maybe 2 mins

I had no idea they were capable of that. How long do those blades last?

Working at a craft or any other skill, professionaly forces a level of discipline and competence that is hard to match otherwise. You must perform all day everday whether you feel like it or not. You must complete projects on time even if you lose interest or run into technical difficulties or get sick. You can't have serious gaps in your skills. Don't like fitting collars? Too bad, there's 150 of them on this project and you have no choice but to do them and do them well. Dont like math? You had better learn whats needed for your work. You will have to take on work that you don't enjoy and will learn a great deal from it. You will get to do maintenance or repair on other peoples work. You may hate what they did or admire it. In either case you will learn a lot. You will work on large projects and sometimes collaborate with other craftsmen. You cannot bask in the kind compliments of friends and family. Your work is out in the cold wind of the competitive market and will take harsh criticism. If your work doesn't perform as expected it may affect your livelihood or worse expose you to legal liability.

I do as I please in my shop. Sometimes its obsessive and I put in longer days and more effort than a professional. But only because I feel like it. I can stop smithing for months at a time and my shop will still be there when I return. If I dont like a technique, I avoid it. As I see it,to call myself a blacksmith would be to ignore the fact that I am in a completely different class from the people who do it for a living.

maddog

Thanks for the advice. I may consider retaining the forge body if people think it has hope. I was using soft brick for the front and back and wasn't getting past orange/yellow. Maybe I didn't give it enough time, who knows. I ITC'ed the inside if you can't tell. I get a pretty good flame with the T-Rex.

So what did you think about my dual burner idea? I would probably need a new forge body if I decided to go with dual burners.

Here is the guys shop that I kind of want mine to resemble, I like his portable forge and anvil cart. I've talked to him a few times, he makes some really nice stuff with what you see on his shop pages.Another question, what should I staring keeping an eye out for as far as practice metal goes?

Forgot to mention, I have this Jet mill that I've got about half way refurbished. Mechanically it works great, cosmetically it's not so great as you can tell. It would work great as a drill press, but the collets and tooling would cost as much as a nice anvil. I'm thinking about selling it as is and that should cover alot of the stuff I need. Problem is, it's in my parents garage, I need a truck and a cheery picker to move it.

I also found a really nice 5" vice with anvil on clearance at a wood supply company near me, and I have the angle grinder from my home improvement projects!!

You say the forge is about 6" dia? I am guessing the chamber is about 12" long so the volume is about 340 cu in. An ordinairy atmospheric burner made from plumbing parts could handle that. A TRex should have no problem. Furthermore you have 3" of kaowool which gives great heat retention. If you dont want that forge, I do!

One mistake that beginners often make with forges is to get too ambitious too soon. They go for designs that are too complicated and too big, spend a lot of money and end up drowning with the project. It's very discouraging. That forge is a perfect size, even a little large. I could weld in that forge. I could make a gate with that forge, a gate with large scrolls.

Rather than ramp up the complexity, why not trouble shoot this forge? You can get plenty of advice from experienced smiths in the gas forge forum at this site. At the end, you will have learned a lot, you will have a great little forge and the satisfaction of successfuly completing a project. Then you will have the knowledge and experience to think about a two burner.

I suggest the following: If you have any extra wool, cut a strip about 18" x 2" and use it to line the arch at the back end of the forge. Add another one about 12" long. This should make a wall of kaowool 2" deep with a 2" hole in the center. Coat with ITC 100. Block up the front with fire brick leaving a 2" or smaller gap in the middle. Fire up the Trex until the inside of the forge shows a small region with a red glow then go pedal to the metal. Raise the gas pressure as high as you can and still keep the exhaust neutral. It should be orangey yellow and rough. At this point the burner should be roaring so loud that conversation is difficult. Put a scrap of kaowool inside the chamber where you can see it, fiddle with the choke to get the hottest glow on the piece of wool. The ideal gas / air ratio may change as the forge heats up. Keep an eye on the propane tank to make sure it doesnt start frosting up. Bake for 30 mins. The interior should be the color of butter, perhaps even cream.

I thought that one was made by squaring off the end, splitting it with a chisel and spreading the two sides apart. Like making a flesh fork. If you look closely you can see the groove where it was split. But I suppose you could slit and drift it into a round hole and that might also leave a groove.

The video is great. Sure it's silly but like Grant says, it's great marketing. You can stand on your dignity or a pile of cash :)

He should really have his own show :)

There are four in my area and all of them mostly dealt with big stuff like incinerators, kilns, etc. Look for places that are really industrial. None of these had showrooms or anything even close. It was interesting because I'm just some schmuck off the street looking to by a few bucks worth of stuff. Yet they were all really nice to deal with. But they'll have little variety of stock. Only leftovers from what their last job needed.

Thanks Marc!

That looks like an excellent forge body. I definitely would not trash it. However, with the ends open like that it will have a hard time getting past orange heat. Close up the back end and leave a small hole, say 2" dia so that the end of a long piece can poke through. Block up the front with the soft firebrick in the first photo leaving an opening that is big enough for what you are working on. The TRex ought be able to get that interior white hot. The 1" liner of cast refractory will a while to reach welding heat, as compared to a pure kaowool forge, but it gives you a nice durable interior. Kaowool liners always need repairing. And it will hold plenty of heat when it gets to temp.

Make sure you have plenty of ventilation. That forge will consume a lot of air. If it gets starved for oxygen, it will produce a lot of CO.

A good quality 4" or 5" angle grinder is invaluable. This is a tool that gets worked hard. Dont go cheap on this. Better yet get 4" AND a 5". You can keep one set up with a grinding wheel and the other with a cutoff disk that will make it easy cut up bars for forging.

A hardware store 2lb hammer with a cross pein will work fine if you use your grinder to round the face and widen the pein.

You can avoid tongs for a while by using long pieces of stock. You can also get by to some extent with vise grips but in the end you will need tongs. Lots of tongs. Lots and lots and lots of tongs! Down the road you might make your own but its not a beginner project. You can often buy them used but unless you are getting them for a few dollars a piece, wait until you have enough experience to judge good from bad. There's a lot of really crappy tongs out on ebay as well as some really beautiful ones. Starting out, I suggest buying a couple three brand new, if your budget can handle it.

The anvil is the biggie. It's expensive whichever way you go, new or used. Buying used depends a lot on your location. Some parts of the states are infested with anvils, in others, they are rare as diamonds. Again, you have to know what you are doing to buy second hand. There are pitfalls. Join your local ABANA chapter. They probably have regular meets in blacksmiths shops. You will learn a great deal just by showing up. These groups are always very supportive and encouraging to new smiths. They will know where the anvils are in your location. Very likely someone will have one to sell. You won't get a steal from a smith. He will know the value of an anvil. But you can count on getting a good useable anvil and probably some tools with it. If your budget can handle it, just buy a new one from Euroanvils or Old World Anvils.

Other tools:

A heavy duty, solidly mounted 4" or larger vise. Ideally a blacksmiths post vise that is designed to withstand hammering.

A drill press. Even a cheap HF drill press is better than none.

A good quality hacksaw with good quality blades, Lennox or Starret.

A chopsaw for cutting stock is a real help. Again, even a cheapo is useful.

A fire proof work table. If you drop red hot iron on that wooden table in the photo above, it will ignite. There will be no messing about with charring and smouldering. The spot where the iron touches will just burst into flames. (Dont ask how I know this.) You can cover the top with a piece of cement board, bricks, paving stones or similar.

Not an absolute necessity but an oxy acetylene torch is invaluable in a blacksmith shop. This too is a chunk of change but if you are patient, you can often find a complete rig for cheap on Craiglist and the like.

Good luck man :)

That was interesting. Thank you.

First off I do not think any metal working process is appropriate for a blacksmith. Is getting your scrolls water jet cut from plate blacksmithing? Is having it cast from aluminum blacksmithing? Is using a 3d Printer to build up the part from metal powder and sintering it in an oven blacksmithing. Is buying a bunch of components from a catalog and welding it together blacksmithing? Is turning tappers on a lathe then wrapping it around a form blacksmithing? Is useing a Hebo machine blacksmithing? These are all things I have seen done to duplicate forge work.

Secondly the statement "If blacksmiths had X tool back in the day they would have used it" Well they did have those tools because they were the ones who invented them for the most part. and they did use them. Most old time blacksmiths became other things as technology changed they went where the work was. They became mechanics, welders, factory workers, steel workers, horseshoers ornamental iron workers Etc... Blacksmithing almost died out in this country for the middle part of the 20th century. It only revived because people took interest in "old ways of working metal"

Definition of BLACKSMITH : a smith who forges iron (Webster)

I agree with Webster that blacksmithing is about forging iron. If the main focus of your work is forging hot iron then you are blacksmithing. If in the process you include other methods, this doesnt negate the fact that you are a smith. A smith might use a hacksaw, he might do some cold bending or chiseling, none of which are forging hot iron, why shouldnt he include arc welding plasma cutting, pressing? And why shouldn't he buy some parts ready made? Is he not a smith because he buys rivets and tongs, hinges or lock parts ready made? Even in colonial days, some smiths specialized in making parts and selling them to other smiths to include in their work. Sometimes too, blacksmiths made and included turned pieces in their work. But if all he does is buy parts and arc weld them with perhaps a little bit of hot hammering to taper and bend scroll ends before putting them in the bender, then sure, the focus of his work is not forging hot iron and I agree that's not blacksmithing.

We would have to ask the people involved in reviving smithing in the US what their actually motives were. I suspect they were various. When I took Turley's class I dont recall him saying it was out of a desire to reenact a historical craft. (Turley is considered a major figure in the blacksmithing renaissance in the US). For myself and many others, the attraction of blacksmith work is to forge hot iron and to be able to make tools. Why should this craft be frozen in time while others are allowed to progress? People talk about a "revival" of blacksmithing but in fact it was never dead. It has been practised without interruption in the US, Europe and the almost the entire world . Sure it lost its prominence and became somewhat marginalized but it was always alive and progressing.

Many top smiths use arcwelding in their work. Schirmler in his book Werk un Werkzeug expressly states that arc welding is acceptable if the look is appropriate for the piece. Francis Whittaker said almost exactly the same thing. I watched Turley work on a piece he was making for a customer in Arizona and he used some arc welding along the way. Gunter too uses some arc welding in his work. Other smiths include, wood, stone copper and other materials in their work even though these elements are not produced by smithing. Why shouldnt there be some plasma cut elements as well if he judges the look to be appropriate?

There is a strong historical element in smithing but that is not the whole story. There is such a thing as modern blacksmithing. It is still about forging hot iron but it uses modern metalworking techniques as an important auxilary to the core process.

Well there's no rule about this I guess. I came to the States from Europe and in that culture, to call yourself a Smith meant you had gone through the process of apprenticeship, journeyman and finally being accepted as a master by other master smiths. Either that, or an informal education leading to a comparable proficiency. Americans are much less formal about these matters but I still feel that to call someone a Smith means he is a master of his craft.

That's just my feeling. I'm not a snob about it and I don't get offended when amatures or even beginners call themselves Blacksmiths. I know what they mean and they aren't pretending to be something they arent. When people refer to me as a Blacksmith, I don't argue but I am not comfortable saying that about myself. I prefer to say "I do forge work".

In a few narrow areas, I am more skilled than a lot of professional smiths. Watching demo videos, I know I can draw out a bar with hammer and anvil faster than many professionals. But they are competent in a wide range of skills including managing large projects and running a business. I know nothing about powder coating, building codes etc. I dont even know how to use a power hammer. In my shop, I do as I please and if I want to invest my time in perfecting my hammer skills I dont have to worry about productivity. A professional would use his power hammer, turn out 50 pieces and move onto the next phase.

I completely agree with Metal Monster that any metal working process is appropriate in a BlackSmith shop, unless you are doing strictly period work. Smiths have always been eager to adopt any useful innovation. The craftsmen of yore would not have hesitated for a moment to use an arc welder, a chopsaw or a hydraulic press if they had had the chance.

(Originaly a mispost. Edited to respond to comments)

Glad you liked the idea. This is a wood working tool. Here is one I made out of maple when I was making cabinets. The lathes are held by a collar with a trapped wedge.




When I switched to metal work I couldn't give them up. But after setting fire to a couple while checking hot welds, I decided to rethink the design

Dodge, I scrounged the thumb screws from somewhere. Im sure the machine supply houses stock them but they arent really necessary. A regular socket head would probably be fine. Even just a dimple with a center punch would probably work well.

Yeah $150 is like 1/3 to 1/4 of the market price today for blocks that size. Good deal! Moving it around to get at the different edges and faces will keep you fit! :)

I've had good luck buying refractory from local refractory contractors. I've gotten insulating firebrick and insulating castable from a few within short driving distance, saving shipping. They were willing to sell small amounts, like a single bag or a few bricks. Usually it's stuff left over from a job.

Interesting idea. I always thought those guys dealt mostly in fireplaces, pizza ovens etc and wouldnt have anything in the temperature regime we need for forging. I bought some insulating firebricks from the local pottery supply house and they melted into puddles of slag. Still its worth following up. Its the shipping thats the killer on this stuff. Often more expensive than the material itself.

Very nice, creek. You should find the block a lot more useful now it has a stand. Looks like you did a lot of work to finish that SFC block. I had one but it had the parting line down the middle which meant a lot of grinding. I was too lazy so I sold it!

When I built my stand, I decided against that face and edge design. I dont have much space for such a wide stand. So I built it to use the edges which is what I mostly use. If I need the face, I wrassle it onto a table.

T Rex Included For Scale

Once more, thanks everyone for the tips and warnings. I learned a lot from this thread.

I will look for thinner blades. I will by a 10 pack of HF blades - for $20 its worth a try.

I am still thinking about a dry cutting blade. I would hate to trash a $150 blade while cutting a piece of rebar.

Seems to me that Frosty has become more cautious lately I will heed his warning especially since I dont have a beard to protect me. I might use them in a bench grinder as a notch grinder. Jerry Hoffman in Blacksmiths Journal suggested this.

Whenever I need a boost, I watch this video.

Language in the video does not fit the IForgeIron guide lines.

Willy Miller Teaches Arc Welding

Just though everyone would like to see my new hammer. It is about 4.75 in long by .875 It is made from W1 with a nice long hickory handle. Im not posative about the weight but the little black ruller in the pictures is 6in for referance, probaly about half a pound

I think its just wonderful, seems to have a vary hard face and pein, and its nicely weighted towards the face.

I just love a filing finish and decoration.

Best of all my Sweetheart made this for me a day ago!
You can see her touchmark under the pein

That is a beautiful piece of work! All the more so because it has simple unfussy lines. It's all about the inherent beauty of the tool. If I didn't think it was inappropriate, I would ask if she has a sister.

More seriously, if she is interested in making a hammer like that for sale, I would buy one in a heart beat. It would be a privilege to own a hammer made by a craftsman of that caliber.