EdCaffreyMS

If your happy with the belts from the source you mentioned (I tried their belts) you'd be giddy about the belts you'd get from Tru-Grit or Pop's.
When I ordered from Barbkat, I got a full selection so that I would be comparing apples to apples, that was the last time I ordered from them. The belts were not near the quality that I was used to. As with other "bargin" belts, it took 3-4 of them to do the job that one Norton/Klingspoor/3M belt would do. In this case your work will reflect the quality of materials you put into it. With the top quality belts your grinds will be smoother, more even, and just overall nicer, while using fewer belts to accomplish your task.

Something to keep in mind when asking for critiques on the internet...... Photos are only 2 dimensional. About the only things that can be accurately judged from a photo are the overall design, and the "flow". Fit and finish are very difficult to inspect from a photo, and are much more accurate when accomplished in person. Another aspect that is critically important is the "feel" and balance, both of which are impossible to judge unless you are holding the piece in your hand.

If you really want to understand how your work is progressing, it is imperative that you attend some major knife shows and closely examine the knives present. Of course there will be all levels of work present, but the major shows will be those where the best makers display their wares, and those are the ones you should be looking at. Another venue to consider are the various Bladesmithing Hammer-ins that occur around the country. A weekend spent at a Hammer-in, surrounded by other Bladesmiths, will shave years off your learning curve.
Finally, if your really serious about your knives, consider taking formal instruction from an established Maker. Generally it will cost you to do this, but the knowledge you receive will be priceless. Two individuals I can give as examples are Jon Christensen, and Dana Hackney. Jon came to me several years ago for a Basic Bladesmithing class. Since that time we have become the best of friends, and Jon has since achieved both his ABS Journeyman and Mastersmith ratings, winning both the Hasting Award (award for best knife submitted by a JS applicant) and the BR Hughes Award (award for best knife submitted by an MS applicant).
Dana came to me for a basic Bladesmithing class, and then later for a Handles/guards class. Recently he won the award for Best New Maker at Blade Show West in Sept 07.
It wasn't just my instruction that got these two were they are. I only showed them the tools. It took a great deal of drive, determination, and work on their parts. The point is that they did everything they could to improve, and have achieved a great deal in a short time. Things like this are what we refer to as "paying your dues".
Looking back over my career as a Bladesmith, I would estimate that I have spend $15,000+ attending Hammer Ins, and both formal and informal training.....every penny was money well spent. Exposing yourself to other Makers not only spawns new ideas, but more importantly, boosts your drive and determination.

There was a time when Grizzly advertised their belts (in the catalog and online) as being 2"X76", they have since changed that to read 2" X 72", but it makes me wonder if their still not sending belts out that are longer than 72".

I had some folks in the not too distant past contact complaining that the belts they got from Grizzly were too long for their machines. My response is to tell them to purchase their belts either from Tru-Grit in California, or from Pop's Knife Supply in Georgia. The belts from Grizzly are of questionable quality at best, but the two suppliers I mentioned sell only premium quality abrasives.

There was a time many moons ago when I tried to "save" money by purchasing inexpensive (read cheap) belts, but quickly realized that I was wasting money because it takes 3-4 of the cheap belts to do what one premium quality belt will do.

When Don used the word "critique", I had to smile.
At shows, I'm often asked by budding Bladesmiths to "evaluate" their knives. My response is usually.."Do you want me to LOOK at your knives, or do you want me to CRITIQUE them?" When "looking" at someones' knives, I try to be as kind as possible, while still pointing out areas that might need improvement. If I'm asked to "critique", then I evaluate the knives as if I were judging them for the Journeyman or Mastersmith test(s), as the situation dictates. I always make sure I tell the individual this, so they don't think I'm railing on them.

Most of the ABS Mastersmiths will make this distinction when evaluating knives. Some folks simply cannot emotionally handle having their work "critiqued". It is not that any of us wants to hurt someone's feelings, much the contrary. Let's say that someone is planning on testing for their JS or MS rating....If I did not give a 100% honest evaluation of their knives, then I would be doing them a disservice. If I were to stroke their ego and tell them everything was great, when it might not be, then they would take off for Atlanta (the Blade Show where all JS and MS testing takes place) with their knives thinking everything is good to go. Should they fail, then because of what I did, they have just wasted a wad of money and time, only to be told "See you next year." And will probably come looking for me with a ball bat!!

One of the reasons the ABS highly encourages JS and MS applicants to have their knives evaluated by as many Mastersmiths as possible, PRIOR to submitting the knives for judging, is to hopefully avoid a wasted trip for someone. People will be people, and personalities do differ. Someone who really knows better MIGHT just tell you that your knives are great, simply to avoid hurting your feelings, hence the reason to have your work reviewed by as many Mastersmiths as possible.
Neither the JS or MS tests are easy. Each requires a lot of work and effort on the part of the applicant. Getting your knives ready and having them evaluated PRIOR to going to Atlanta is just good sense. Many times when I have been a Judge, I have asked individuals who have failed.. "How many Mastersmiths reviewed your work?" Almost without fail, everyone of them gave me a dumbfounded look and said.. "None."
Just trying to make the point that there is more to it than just making 5 knives and going to Atlanta...at least if you want to be successful.

I actually started out as a teenager. I grew up on a large farm in southern Indiana. The community was very small, and about all a kid did was work on the farm, and hunt/fish/trap. There were only three other boys my age anywhere around, and of course on of them became my best pal. At the age of 12 he and I worked all summer, putting up hay in order to make money for purchase new knives for the coming trapping season. Late in the summer we talked his Dad into taking us to the nearest sporting goods store (about a 45 min drive) and each of us purchased what was then suppose to be top of the line knives. The first thing we caught that trapping season was a 52 lb beaver. He sharpened his knife 4 times, and I sharpened mine 5 times to get through that one pelting job! The search was on for a better knife. I started searching around the farm shop for things that I thought might make good knives. I tried to make blades from everything I could think of.... old mower blades, old hacksaw blades, old parts from machinery, I even "borrowed" some of my Grandmother's kitchen knives! (which sometimes got me in deep dutch!)
I entered the Air Force at 19, and on at my second duty station met a second generation blacksmith out of Colorado who made muzzleloaders from scratch, including forge welding the barrels. One day at his outdoor smithy, I noticed a chunk of steel lying beside the forge that look like a knife blade. I asked about it and he said "Oh, thats a patch knife that will go with the muzzleloader we're making..." The light came on!! Within a month I had built myself a forge from the brake drum of an old ford pickup, found an old chunk of RR track for an anvi,l and was going to town! My first shop took shape the following summer in the form of an 8' X 12' shed that my landlord allowed me to build on the property I was renting.
I discovered the American Bladesmith Society in 1984, and decided that someday I wanted to earn my Mastersmith rating. I joined the ABS and have been a member ever since. As time went by, I started to sell a few knives, and turned the money around for more and better tools. Slowly my knives became more popular, and as I became better at my craft, the quality of my work increased. Today I generally run a backlog of 6-9 months.

Upon moving to Montana in March of 1992, I really became serious about my Bladesmithing. Once the moving boxes where all in the new house, I told my wife, "I've got to get a shop built." I put up a 18'X20' pole barn type building and after the first Montana winter in it, realized that eventually I would have to do something better. At -20F, it takes a LONG time to heat up all the tools just to get ready to forge! In 1994 I earned my ABS Journeyman Smith rating, and in 2000, earned my ABS Mastersmith rating. That same year I built a new 20' X 50' shop, complete with in floor hot water heat. And the journey continues.
There are MANY people that have helped me along the way. The thing that has kept me going all these years is a strong love of the craft, and the wonderful people who pursue it. Most everyone I have ever met in the Bladesmithing/Knifemaking community would literally give you the shirt off their back. In 2003, I retired from the Air Force, and took up Bladesmithing full time. At first it was difficult making the transition from wearing a uniform and having 40 people working for me, to just me and my two dogs in the shop. But once the adjustment period was over, I can't imagine ever doing anything else!
My favorite aspect of what I do is teaching. While I love to produce knives, I get a deep personal satisfaction from teaching others and watching them grow in the craft. I have been blessed to teach all over the world. Germany, Belgium, Canada, and at numerous locations within the US. Currently a good portion of my business is teaching others, one-on-one, in my shop.
I attend about 3-4 major knife shows per year, and spend the rest of my time filling orders and teaching. I have also served as a judge for the ABS at both the Journeyman and Mastersmith levels.

OK, now that I've covered my history, there is one more thing that I think needs to be said. We all had to start somewhere, and we all have/had very little actual knowledge when we began. No matter how far you go, or how successful you are, I believe that you should NEVER forget where you came from. We are all learning as we go. Everyday in the shop is a new adventure, acquiring new skills and knowledge, constantly chasing that dream of the "perfect blade". Its not about the finish.....its about the journey!

Today there are more Bladesmiths in the world than at any other time in history. We have venues such as this one to thank for that. I refer to the time frame when I started out as "The Dark Years", because at that time there was no internet, and knowledge of the craft was closely guarded. Today a vast array of knowledge on Blademsithing is as close as the nearest internet connection. Thats not to say its easy, you still need the drive and determination to make it happen, but the information is more readily available than ever before.

If its making blades that interests you, then understanding steels and heat treating will take you further than anything. Knowing the exact steel your using, and understanding it will keep you from having to "re-invent the wheel" every time you forge a blade. It also helpful to understand the characteristics of given steels so that you can make intelligent choices about what steel to use for a given blade type/style. Some types of steels lend themselves to certain applications better than others. For example, given the choice between 5160 or 1095 for a heavy duty chopper, I would go with the 5160 based on the facts that it would create a tougher blade due to its elemental makeup. How do I know this? By knowing what elements and alloys each of the steels contain, and understanding what they impart to the finished blade is priceless to creating a great knife........the steel is the heart of a knife, but the heat treating is the soul.

Thanks for posting that info Karl! You did a much better job than I would have! I was going to put up a link, but you've got it all laid out there for everyone. Good on ya!

If folks take the time to read all of the information, they will hopefully understand the level of knowledge and craftsmanship required to create a blade that will pass the performance tests, and understand that the quality level must be very high to make it through the judging phase.

I would add that the test blade is really more about the Bladesmith than anything. Each of the performance tests in themselves is not that difficult, however when you combine the tests, it becomes a measure of the individual Bladesmith's knowledge of forging, heat treating, and proper geometry. The second phase of the test in Atlanta is where the fit and finish is crucial.

Over the years I have heard some comment that the standards are being raised by the ABS as the years go by. Thats just not so. I've judged at both the Journeyman and the Master Smith levels, and the same rules have always applied. Whats occurring is that Bladesmiths keep getting better and better. If anyone is to blame its us. Every year somebody pushes the envelope, and raises the level of quality and craftsmanship, in essence, raising the bar for us all. I personally think its a good thing, because it means you either strive for higher levels, or you get left behind.

If your going to use 5160, and want to make it very tough, I would suggest differentially heat treating it. Another term would be selective hardening.

There are a couple of different ways to accomplish this. The one I prefer is to only harden that portion of the blade that you wish to be hard. In other words, once the blade is ready for hardening, you have the option of hardening as much or as little of the blade as you desire. The general rule is to harden the blade 1/3 to 1/2 of the blade's width from edge to spine. A lesser amount of hardened material will allow the knife to bend easier, while a greater amount will make it more resistant to bending..... WITHIN A LIMIT. I have hardened some blades to within 1/4" of the spine and they still bent to 90 degrees without cracking.

The other method, which I'm not too keen on, is to fully harden the blade, then do a "soft back draw". This is where the edge of the blade is placed in coolant, and a heat source such as an oxy/act torch is played along the spine until the tempering colors run into the dark blues. The reason I am not keen on this method is that very few have the patience to do it correctly. Two things that cannot be separated with steel is time and temp. In order for a specific transformation to occur within the steel, it requires a specific temp, for a specific amount of time. I have had several folks who where testing for their ABS Journeyman rating do this, and their blades failed during the bending test. After examining a few of these, and talking to the makers, it became clear that they were achieving a tempered "skin" or about .010 thickness, while the interior of the spine remained hardened (harder) . Those that have passed with this methodology, have taken as long as an hour to soft back draw their test blade(s).
So in reality, either method will work, but I feel there is much more room for error with the "soft back draw" method. Why make it any harder on yourself than it has to be?
Anyway, back to specifics. 5160, edge hardened at 1550F, then tempered at 350F (really your just stress relieving it) should produce an edge hardness of approx. Rc 57-59, with the unhardened area being an Rc 38-40. If you bump up the tempering temp to 375F the edge hardness numbers will drop by about 2-4 points.

How supple or stiff the blade will be, depends on how much of the blades width (edge to sping) that you harden.

In my opinion you will not find a better grinder for the money anywhere! I've owned a KMG for a few years now, and it is without a doubt the easiest, most reliable grinder I have ever owned or worked on.

Here's a link to a write up I did on my machine...
KMG-article

Once you get it set up and practice with it a bit, your gona love it!

It could be several things. From what you mentioned, my first thought is that the tempering to blue is destroying the temper line. The line itself is a delineation in the grain structure. When you temper the whole blade to blue, your likely taking away that abrupt change in the grain which shows up as the temper line. The water might be an issue too. My opinion is that any carbon or tool steel should be quenched in oil. In this case a very light oil like mineral oil or peanut oil is called for. With 1050 you would only achieve an Rc hardness of around 55-57 as quenched, and in theory you should not have to temper, maybe just a stress relieve at 350F. If you try it, and an edge does crack, that is usually telling you that you need to sand to a finer grit prior to quenching. I usually got to at least 120 grit to prevent stress risers from forming along the scratch/grinding marks.

The whole idea behind "clay hardening" is that the area covered with clay never gets hardened, while the exposed edge does, and the temper line that shows in the end is nothing more than the transition zone where the blade goes from hard to soft.
You can can achieve the same thing by just edge quenching the blade, rather than quenching the whole thing. I do it on most using knives I make.

Try just stress relieving the blade after quenching at 350F for two hours and see if that makes any difference. When I clay quench, I can normally see the temper line as soon as I knock off the clay.

I've used that mixture before on ornamental ironwork, but I don't think it is something that would work well on a nicely finished knife blade. If your talking about knives, I would recommend a good quality automotive type paste wax with caranuba in it.

Harvey and Dickie both are two of the top ABS Mastersmiths. Harvey is considered by many to be one of the top 10 Bladesmiths in the world.

I know both of these guys, and you won't go wrong. Make sure to spend time after class talking and hanging out with both of them....you will get many jewels of knifemaking wisdom just chatting with them. Both are down to earth type people and very easy to get along with.

The next time you take a look at the ABS website, take some time and read over the JS and MS test requirements.... Both of these teachers are Mastersmiths, which means they've passed both the JS and MS requirements. You don't get there without having something on the ball!

Hi Ted!

In my experience there will always be disagreements on methodology. I've come to realize over all these years that much depends on the individual, and how thinga work in their individual shops. There are of course some things that are pretty much concrete, but I often will preface a statement with "This is how it works for me." Early in my career I ran into some instances where I had made a statement about how something works...and a day or two later it had become "Ed Caffrey says you HAVE to do it this way", when I had said no such thing. Now I try to let folks know that I certainly don't know it all. In fact the more I learn, the more I understand I really don't know that much!

I've had a bit of time to wonder around the site, and am very impressed with what I've found. I hope to be able to contribute to the "Blue Print" section, and look forward to the chat room.

I was going to post these in the "Gallery", but keep getting error messages, so I thought I would try here.....

These are a few of the folders that I've produced...

This is one of my "Gents" folders. All Mosaic Damascus, titanium liners and thumb studs, heat colored, with rubies inset into the back spacer.
"Golden Currents" Photo 1


Next is my "Progression II" folder. This folder has a blade of 52100, titanium liners, and G-10 handles. It was produced for a local rancher friend. The clip is engraved with the individual's brand. Photo 2


Finally, this next folder is all Mosaic Damascus, with engraving.... Photo 3

I agree with the acetone. I usually follow that up with a quick shot/cleaning with windex, then etch.

Hi Bill!

That is a NICE piece you got there! Your rockin-n-rollin on those folders!

Wow! I haven't even been here for a day and its already expanding!

This is the place to talk about folding knives.....I'm liking this place more and more!

Thanks fellas!

Mike, Thanks for referring me to this place! It looks like a wonderful place with a lot of really nice folks. It'll be a pleasant change from some of the "other" forums where all the squabbling goes on.

James,

To make sure I'm doing things correctly, which forums should I post knife pics on? Don't want to come in here and goof up right outta the gate!


Again, thanks for the kind, warm welcome!

Hello!

A buddy recently emailed about this forum, and I decided to have a look and see. Looks like a wonderful place!

I'm Ed Caffrey, ABS Mastersmith. I've been a Blacksmith/Bladesmith for 25+ years, and a full time Bladesmith for the last 5 years. After 22 years in the US Air Force, I decided that I was getting too old and slow for that young man's game. I retired, and ever since have been full time in my shop.

My Blacksmith shop consists of a 20'X 50" structure, with 3 propane forges, two Trenton, and one Kolishwa anvil, a 110lb Say-Mak air hammer, a 25+ ton forging press, a digitally controlled "salt tank", and all the other associated goodies gathered over all these years. I also have a finish shop in a separate building with everything I need to complete the messes I start at the forge.

My passion for the last several years has been Mosaic Damascus.

Looking forward to learning from everyone here, and the great discussions that are sure to take place.