PJames

I found a couple of these while picking up RR spikes the other day. I almost left them as they were bulkier than a spike and more twisted. Guess I ought to reconsider... Went out today and bought a couple coil springs from a junkyard. The guy let me have them both for $10. I'm not sure if that is a good price or not but they look like they have enough length once I cut it up to make a variety of chisels, punches and and some hardie tools that I need to make. He also gave me a couple valve lifters and a valve to play with. Being a complete newbie, I have some hammers but nothing else really. The one actual punch I have (manufactured) is a little 4 incher for marking.

These are pics of one side of that tong. I left it n the patio and it rained all night. Rusted up fast!!

Some of ya'll are gonna laugh and others are gonna say.."Been there, done that". I just put in a 4 1/2 session pounding on metal trying to make a set of tongs. I know alot of you will have a double set of inornate iron gates done in that much time. I am sitting here right now with the muscles of my right arm so tired that I can hardly lift my beer... (But I'll use my left hand to help as needed...) I started the morning with using a grinding wheel to cut off my feeble pounding yesterday. Then I began pounding away, got what I thought was the right angles, making sure both of my pieces of rebar stayed relatively uniform. I did the 'hockey stick' curve then back and when I finished, they did not even come close... Back online and saw I had left out a bend.. After probably 200 heats and several coolings of the handle ends....(heat eventually travels down a long distance and makes it hot enough to get your attention REAL quick) I finally got both pieces symetric They fitted and looked they would probably work. A little rough but I liked the look. Then I tried punching and drifting. I used a punch to mark it and then a piece of the stuff I figured to use as a rivet as a punch. It did not harden enough but I finally got a hole started. Not in line so I got a drill bit and bored out a hole then used that drift piece to make it widen out. The off center proved to be my undoing. It took several attempts to finally get the hole widened. When I tried to rivet it with a tapered piece of that same material, It tore through. I realized another problem was I was using 3/8" stock originally so any mistakes would be amplified. I tried to bend the piece a little further up leaving the piece of rivet in place, figuring I might get that to work... Nice shape but the failed rivet area completely failed and there was no hope to salvage. Did I learn anything? You bet. But I did not get even a serviceable set of tongs. So it's either try again right away (or when work permits) or just rely on my channel locks and the POS long needle nose pliers I just bought at Harbor Freight to work on other skills. On a side note. I did try upsetting my rebar again. I kept it straight and it seemed to work a little. Not a big-time increase, but enough to be noticeable to my unpracticed eye....

Rich, I had seen the blueprint section, but though it plans for making various things. I had no idea that it was a tutorial... Thanks for pointing that out.

I am another newbie who has looked at getting some rebar cheap. That and RR spikes for pretty much free iron... Like others I am looking at pros and cons of each. I have noticed some of it is harder to work with than videos I have seen online. (UNLESS of course, I am not getting anywhere near the temps others are.) I had thought that rebar would very cheap mild steel. Apparently, from comments here, that is not the case. Like other beginners, I would like some mentoring... to tell me what to look for and what to look OUT for. How to tell what kind of steel I picked up. I am walking into alot of this blind. I did NOT have the advantage of seeing this stuff done firsthand. So I am trying to go by descriptions and explanations. I need to know the theory or at least a little back-knowledge of what is going on... I am NOT a complete dumb-ass. I run a heart-lung machine for a living... but this is outside my experience. So I could use a little help.

and only burned myself once when I grabbed the bar a little too close... I played around with a couple pieces of rebar and a railroad spike, To me the whole inside of the forge looked kinda orangish. I was hot enough to flatten the rebar but when I tried to upset it to make it a little thicker on one end, it only bent. Part of the problem might have been I was using a piece of 3/8" that was 30 inches long. I just thought I would try using some really cheap material to try some techniques like drawing out, upsetting and flattening. I could flatten and square the rebar with no problem, I squared off the head of the rr spike but could not do alot more. I tried upsetting it but not sure if I did anything or just blunted the end. Anyway, I had a few hours of fun once I got my forge going...(first time it fired up). I can see I am going to have to invest in some lessons to see how things are SUPPOSED to work rather than just read about them. I am a little surprised that this site does not have a map or a way to search for people near you... If anybody is anywhere close to Shreveport, La give PM me. Pat

I did not get an answer back yet on anther thread about whether or not to fire my forge before applying plisix, so I went out and lit it anyway. I guess I cannot post pictures directly from my computer. But the flame I got was blue and sounded like a torch kind of a steady roar. Then the blue would go out and I could not see any flame at all and the pitch would increase. It would go back and forth like this. I pulled the burner in an out a few times and adjusted gas flow. My main question is what am I looking for? I wanted to use a firebrick(1.25" thick) in the bottom but it is wide enough that I have alot of space under the brick. I did not have a brick available when I built the forge to see how it would sit. The space above the brick is about 5 inches or so wide and 3.5 tall. I lit it at first without the brick but did not do any adjusting until i put the brick in. Then it was too hot to remove the brick and attempt to adjust empty. I am planning on trimming that brick so it sits deeper in the forge body.

I have ordered plistix, but it has not come in yet. Is it wise (read SAFE) to fire a forge without coating with the hardener. Can the reflective coating be applied any time? I used a couple inches of kaowool and covered that coating of refractory cement. It has been drying all week. I even put it in the kitchen oven to bake out moisture. It's not like I plan to breathe the air coming out of the forge, but I don't want particles of ceramic wool/refractory filling the air either..

Not sure why my earlier post did not go through... BUT since I started this thread I'll use it as sort of a blog for the next entry or so.... Today I installed kaowool in my new forge. then covered it with a (hopefully thick enough) layer of refractory cement. (If I knew how to post pics here I would..but they would look the same as everybody else's) except i am trying to mold a door for the front of my forge.. I measured and have molded a refractory/ kaowool combination to make a door/front for my forge. I figure I can cut a usable area out of the front piece. And if it does not hold up like I hope it will, I can always stack bricks....

I got the stuff to build my burner like Phil described. And most of the stuff to build the forge itself except for the firebricks which I will put in on the floor as a disposable. (Well the door too, unless I come up with some other design.) My kaowool and refractory cement mix only set me back about $78). The burner assembly, lines and associated tools cost me a fair amount. The easiest part of the assembly so far has been mounting the burner support tube. Even with few decent tools, (I used a hand drill, wire cutters and a 1/2 round file) I got the body together. Weather permitting I plan to cut and install the kaowool and refractory cement this weekend.

Went out and bought all the stuff I needed to make me one of these burners. I spent enough to make any of ya'll cringe... First off, I could not find a 6 inch pipe nipple yesterday so i got a longer one. Today I found the right size at another store. Then I have never tapped a thread so I had to buy the taps and something to tap it with..(decided to try a hand type so I probably should have bought some bandaids).. I could not find the 1/8 MPT to 1/4 compression fitting at either of my local big box stores, so took a trip to a local plumbing supply for them. While there, I figured I better have a ball valve in line as a cuttoff near the forge. They had 1/2 inch (or maybe 3/8) and then gave me connectors to step down to the copper tube... Another $20 spent. I did find a "high" pressure woven steel tubing for the propane tank a 0 to 20 regulator at a bib box store. They sell them down here for crawfish/crab boiling tanks and for frying turkeys. I'm hoping that will get me started. Nobody had anything bigger and a couple stores only had chintzy bar-b-que regulators. I decided to try to save a few bucks by going to Harbor Freight for the hand wrench thing for the taps... I remembered seeing how I need to grind off excess mig tip to tune the burner so got an off-brand dremmel-type tool and grinding/cutting discs.. Now I can play......

The compression coupler I bought was not one I could use. It was a 1/4 to 1/2 , the type used to connect a 1/4" copper pipe to a 1/2 inch line. I thought I could just put the mig tip into the compression end and tighten it down but it would not hold the tip. I have never tapped a thread so wanted to find an easier way to mount the mig tip. Guess i'll wind up looking again to see what I can find. I mounted a coupler on the side of my bucket last night, so maybe this weekend I can at least try to assemble the forge body itself. Oh, how important are flares on the burner tube? Is it better/easier to mold a flare are in the refractory where the end of the burner sits? I did get a piece of pipe to go on the end of my 3/4" pipe but I can not see how it is going to be easily replaced after it burns up From what i see, with how the bare burner pipe will slide into place, I'll have to push the flare onto the pipe inside the forge and then pull it back to seat it in position. Is that how you all do it? The problem with this is it looks like once assembled it will be difficult if not impossible to disassemble to remove the burner tube.

I went over and bought kaowool and a bag of refractory mix. The kaowool was $48 for the 6# density and the cement was 23.81..tax included I paid $80. I probably have enough stuff to build a couple forges... Gotta figure the burner now.. I took the list as written out here to Home depot and could not find much of what I wanted. I almost need to take pics along... I got a 1/4 X 1/2 compression coupler thinking it was what was described.. So I'll just hit a plumbing supply store tomorrow and then can fit the pieces as I go along..

A local brick supplier quoted me $1.65ea for 'firebrick' that are 9X4.5 X 1.25 thick. Not sure if these are soft but they say they are rated at 2200. I found dry refractory mix at another company. 50# bag for right at $23. The same guy has kawool but I'd have to buy a carton which is 50 sq ft. I'm guess that is a 25 foot roll with 2 ft width. I was driving at the time and did not write the cost of that down. I was thinking "What could I possibly do with that much stuff and I don't like the idea of storing it around the house. I did not know the names of any of the other insulating blankets.

Ok. I am getting the picture. Part of my problem was not knowing if I insulate, cover with cement etc with an open hole or with the burner in place. I sort of had the idea that only the burner support tube was fixed and that was on the outside of the forge body. That the burner itself would slide down a hole in the insulation. (Kind of like a 1 inch pipe inserted into a 1 and 1/8" tunnel.) I could not figure how that would seal. I've never seen one of these forges. Hell, for that matter, I have never tapped threads into a fitting. or done alot of the other things ya'll take for granted. I was reading about the Frosty burner and it was more than 1/2 way through that I realized the MIG fitting was what you might see on a MIG welder. I was thinking it was some kind of acronym that I would find later on for a plumbing part.. And it's NOT that I am a complete dummy when it comes to the dynamics of running fluids and gases under pressure. I run a heart/lung machine during cardiac surgery for a living. But then I have a different set of problems moving blood than something that will mix and then burn at ultra hot temps..

"With a solid cast forge it may be over an hour before you get it to welding temp and will take a similar amount of time to cool off at the end of the session." So I guess the same holds true for a forge built of firebricks? I found a local supplier of firebricks for a reasonable price. (Another, a fireplace company, was over 3X as expensive) I know cutting/drilling firebrick is problematic in itself but I was also trying to figure a way around ceramic exposure. Which leads me to another question.... I was planning on simply covering the ceramic wool with a decent layer of refractory cement. I was curious how the hole in the wool could be coated without either messing up the air/gas flow or making the hole a tad too large and having a sloppy fit for the burner flare. One description somewhere described cutting an X in the wool and push the flare thru.. then the wool would kind of seal around it. I guess he snipped away around the flare to make sure it did not impede gas flow or blow particles around... Thomas, I had realized that you have to maintain a proper gas to air ratio for complete burning. I just did not know if i could simply put a blower on a venturi style burner, and then have a turbo charged burner for times I wanted welding heat.

now i will have to look up what a ribbon burner is... another thing in the learning list... :)

I have been reading as many sites as I can looking at plans for building my first gas forge. The one problem I have encountered is understanding some of the basic principles behind the designs. For instance: 1. Concerning a burner. from what I see, air comes into the tube then the gas. Where is the actual combustion taking place? In the forge itself or in the burner tube? To me it seems the actual fire has to be in the forge body (post flare) or the burner will get melted. 2. Along that line, what is the real difference between atmospheric and forced air burners? I noticed Y's (sometimes with chokes) built outside the burner tubes. I wondered if you could kick a regular atmospheric burner into overdrive by forcing air into the Y (and get a hotter fire with less fuel). I realize that if the burner is put into an idle mode, the forced air would have to be cut off and a way to open it back up to atmospheric pressures would have to be accomplished to avoid oxygen deprivation and extinguishing the flame.. 3.I looked at Larry Zoeller's simple forge and like the design. I was thinking of adapting that by covering the ceramic wool with a thick refractory cement coating. What are the reasons for NOT using 100% refractory cement..or a combination wool/cement coating? Is it weight, cost, slow time to cure or insulation properties? 4. I want to build a forge that I can get up to welding temps. It does not have to be large as right now anything that I can envision making will be relatively small in diameter. Just joined but have read through many of the posts and really like the forum.. Pat