iron quake

I posted this in the heat treating section and got views but no replys. Do I need to remove the old post?

I’m about to start making tooling, for the 100 lb LG hammer, I just rebuilt and put a brake on. Thanks to Sid at LG, Peacock, and McBruce by the way for your help in this endeavor.

So my question is this; I’m going to make most of the tooling; swage blocks, fullers, v blocks and the like, either with spring arms or side bars to attach to the bottom die holding fixture I just machined. Most of the tools will be made of 4140 and sent out for professional heat treating, in the mid 40 RC range. I’ll try to harden and temper some of the simple, smaller tools myself, in quenching oil or canola. So, can I weld the mild steel spring arms or attachment bars on after heat treatment or should they be attached first? I’m not so much worried about breaking tools and having to remake or repair them, as having them fail and come shooting out and killing me BTW.

I ordered the two DVD set xxxxxxxxxxx and worth every penny, at least to me.

I just spent the last two weeks watching Clifton Ralph and Dave Manzer’s RIP DVD’s on power hammer tooling and techniques. Both these videos are well worth the money and time.
The Clifton video is a low quality production and not professionally shot but the quality and quantity of information is so valuable you can forget about it not being pretty. I’m sure I could watch Mr. Ralphs work for the next couple years and still pick up information, besides he’s very entertaining and a kick to watch. Kind of like watching a grizzly peel the top off your car, to get at your fried chicken and give you that convertible you always wanted.

I’m about to start making tooling, for the 100 lb LG hammer, I just rebuilt and put a brake on. Thanks to Sid at LG, Peacock, and McBruce by the way for your help in this endeavor.

So my question is this; I’m going to make most of the tooling; swage blocks, fullers, v blocks and the like, either with spring arms or side bars to attach to the bottom die holding fixture I just machined. Most of the tools will be made of 4140 and sent out for professional heat treating, in the mid 40 RC range. I’ll try to harden and temper some of the simple, smaller tools myself, in quenching oil or canola. So, can I weld the mild steel spring arms or attachment bars on after heat treatment or should they be attached first? I’m not so much worried about breaking tools and having to remake or repair them, as having them fail and come shooting out and killing me BTW.

I have sent Steve an email request for information on the subject. Thank you Sask.

I'm watching the DVD's from Clifton Ralph while out of town. I can't do much else, so a little further education by the hammerman seems to be the best I can do for now. Phil " Peacock" is making a brake band for me and gave me some very useful safety advice as well. To be honest, the hammer scares the hell out of me so I think thats a fine place to start from.

I still need to get some first hand real world education. Anyone in the area of North Idaho or the Phoenix area using a power hammer that I could spend sometime with please let me know.

Peacock can you tell me about how much spring force is required for the brake? When I use my hand applied to the flywheel to stop the free wheel it seems like very little force is required to stop the rotation, but I can't really quantify that. Any Idea would be a big help to me thanks. The nylon strap you use must be pretty thin, " its seat belt material". It moves away from the flywheel anyway. I would love to purchase a section from you, so I can see first hand what you are using and not reinvent the wheel.

Thanks for your help.

Oh yeah Macallans, marinade for 1 ice cube. ;} You better believe it Mr. Macbruce. Justin I'll let ya know when I get the brake on and have the thing acting like a nice beast, so you can come take a look see. It might be a few weeks, as I'll be out of town a while.

I’ve been watching video of power hammers till I’m blue in the face. Stewartthesmith you are absolutely correct. What I need is someone with experience and 100lb little giant experience at that , to come make a visit to beautiful Coeur D’ Alene Idaho. You can stay here at our new home outside of town and show me the ropes of power hammer use. I’ll put you up in a very nice room in our home in a very nice part of the planet, feed you very well. We might even have a drink or four…..after the equipments shut off. Any takers?

Oh man I got the hammer running today had to refit some parts and make a nice guard for the beast before I could stand in front of it. I did the first few cycles standing behind a couple sheets or 3/4 inch OSB….yep scary deal for me. Today was the first time I’ve ever ran a power hammer or even seen one run. I will say it was VERY impressive. I’m so happy I cut my shop floor out and poured a 3 foot thick 7 sack concrete base for this thing, that’s for sure. I see the need for a brake for sure, using it with top tools for furniture and fixture making and the like. I machined a real nice top tool holding fixture that I’ve seen some of you other guys using. I’ll try to post pictures tomorrow or a video, if I can figure out how to do that on this site. **** I can’t hardly wait till tomorrow.

Thanks Peacock I see the need for a brake for sure.

Well peacock you are correct I got the lumps off and that is about it. The run out is way to much to remove grinding. I'll use leather and a length of nylon snatch strap. I see you have them sewen together. How do you secure the ends to the metal parts? I was thinking about machining a through bolt pinch clamp kind of part. I can purchace 3/16" thick leather from McMaster is that thick enough?

As a side note I got the rest of my parts back from Sid at LG today, that dude is a class act. There is no way I would have been able to undertake this rebuild without his help.

I also can't overstate the help several of you on this site have been also, Thank You.

I'm going to add a brake to my 100lb LG I've been restoring the last few weeks. What are the thoughts on using UHMW bonded and screwed to a metal strap? Do you think the CF will be to low? I'm going to grind the outside of the fly wheel today to true it up some and get the lumps off prior to putting the front end parts back on.

Thank you all for your suggestions and happy New Year

What methods are used to finish large items like tables and chairs. I'm a new blacksmith and have made some very nice furniture (so I'm told) recently. The finish however is a problem. I'd like that nice blackened and oiled appearance. I've resorted to sand blasting. This removes the mill scale from the hot rolled sections that don't get any heat and makes everything uniform, then reheat the whole item with a propane weed burner. I can then apply linseed oil or just a clear varathane. This its very inefficient and really not the look I'm after. Please help me out with your suggestions.

Grant the Blacksmith Depot doesn't have your equipment under any of the product tabs. You can see the forges listed if you put "induction forges" in the search area but there is no information and an error message comes up.

How do I get a price on one of Grants induction forges? I can't find a website for Off Center Products, Mr. Sarver !

Peacock, So you perform this operation horizontally? You rest the hammer on something correct? This is an interesting idea.

I’m interested in knowing the most efficient method of upsetting the end of ¾ and 1” square bars. The process of forming a 50% larger bulged end for table legs up to 45” long. I need a more productive way to accomplish this than, dropping a hot bar on end on a heavy plate on the floor, or hand hammering it while supported through a square hole in a big swage block.
I’ve been thinking about making a 50-75 lb treadle or pneumatic hammer, with the front of the anvil open and shaped like a u. Make the anvil from three very heavy bars or plates welded together. I could then place a removable die block with various square holes in it on the anvil and key it in location. This would support the bars to be swaged. The die block would slide out to the front of the hammer to allow install and removal of the bars. I could core drill a 2” hole in my shop floor to allow the long bars a clearance for their length. I’d pre swell the ends of the bars so they would stop in the die block in the correct location. You all have vast experience and I’m pretty new to blacksmithing. So I need to know if I’m missing something or any better ideas are out there . I’d use this hammer for other operation requiring top tools also.

The key is in bad shape so I'll need to machine a new one. I'm not going to be able to work on this for a few weeks. but what kind of taper is on the key. Is it tappered on only one side two or all four. I'm guessing the keyway is straight, correct. I don't have a surface grinder so I'm hoping a nice milled finish and then hand fitting with prussian blue will be ok. I've manufactured a lot on equipment over the years and NEVER built anything with a tappered key, so this is new to me. I thank you all for your help. I'll post pictures if I ever figure out how the heck to do it on this site, what a pain.

The spider being out of position on the shaft, blocks the grease path to the clutch bearing, so I guess I will need to fix it. Sid suggested this might be a problem and sure enough its is. I am really suprised how little this hammer seems to have been used in the last 50 years. Its spent its whole life in an aluminum plant in Spokane Washington, making pry bars I've been told. Lots of life left in her if I can fix this little problem.

I will add a couple pictures of the offending items as soon as I figure out how to do that. I’m sure Sid will tell me what’s required to put this back in position. I’m inclined to leave it alone as a couple of you guys suggested. I might be more interested in pulling it all apart, if it needed new babbit but that’s not the case. There is about .04” of radial play in the main bearings and about twice that amount in shim between the upper a lower halves.
I will be pulling the front end off to clean it up, repair missing oil cups, bush or replace the pitman which has about .04” clearance in it also and perhaps tighten up the linkage and arm holes, and perhaps add brass gibs to the ram guides. I really don’t want to do anything more that necessary to get it running. Perhaps someday I’ll add a break to the old girl but not right now. What do you all think about adding a break BTW?

I purchased a new style 100lb little giant last week in Spokane and have a question. The hammer I think is in good shape except for one issue. The spider is not on the main shaft completely. The shaft is recessed into the spider about ½”. The key is also sticking out beyond the spider more than ¾”. This machine has been like this for some time. Some type of crude attachment is stuck on the end of the key, in an attempt to drive it in or pull it out. In order to take up the axial play in the main shaft, given the clutch assembly in out of position a large split collar was added to the main shaft just behind the forward main bearing. So the question is how do I go about getting the clutch back on the shaft and where is should be? I think the key is tapered but I’m not sure about that. I talked to Sid at little giant and he was very helpful in telling me what to look for before buying. There was a huge guard covering the whole back end so I didn’t see this and it would not have been a deal breaker anyway. I have a call into Sid to see what he can tell me and to order a DVD set from him on rebuilding.