iron quake

Thanks to all of you for your replies. I guess what I take from this is, its much more important on construction, insulation and coatings than the burners. I have an induction forge from Monster Metal and that saves a bunch on the propane but I can’t do large furniture parts with it.

Call Larry at Monster Metal for an Induction forge. I don't know how much it's saved me but its a lot. 1" square bar to orange juicy hot in about 50 seconds. 

I'm going to purchase a burner from Jim Fox at thermal Art Design. $85 nice looking burner and a good price. I'll land one in my old forge after I re-line and coat it and see how it acts. I have a nice little machine shop but at $85 I can't even think about making them. I spend enough time making power hammer and press tooling as it is. 

Thank you Eric for your response I guess this topic is of little interest on the forum or more likely no one else has any idea as to the efficiency of their design or anyone else's. 

Given as you say a small increase in performance could be of great value in fuel savings over time, any idea how to figure it out? I don’t have the means to purchase or build and test all of these, to make any determination on my own. I was hopeful someone else would have done that already. 

I find it peculiar that there is a lot of boasting about all these burners and how simple they are to build and CHEAP, with plumbing parts for $10, but no one seems to care about $100’s in fuel costs. 

I’m going to be building a new forge with open ends with doors and a clear open side as well. The design will be somewhat like David Hammers Super C design but deeper and longer 5” high 9” deep and 24” long. I’ll be able to shut off burners when I need less working volume and reduce the volume with a movable back wall as well. I don’t forge weld so I don’t need that but I’d like that level of performance. I need this size and style to be able to forge furniture parts. I have a forge like this now but its too small and VERY inefficient. So I know what I want, now how to heat it is the question.

I’ve looked at burners by Reil, Frosty, Rex, Zoeller Devil Forge, and Hammers hybrid style. My question is has anyone quantified the energy efficiency of these burners. The website of Devil Forge claims their hybrid burners are 30% more efficient than their standard burners. What about the rest of these other burners? This forge is going to consume a lot of fuel, so efficiency is very important to me.

Thanks in advance for your input and suggestions.

I'm getting ready to build a new rather large forge 5"H 9"W 24"L. Being able to keep the insulating blanket connected the the FLAT roof has been a bit of a puzzle until I read this post. The forge will need to be able to open up on both ends and allow access thru the side as well for large furniture size parts. I have a small VERY inefficient little forge like this now and know I need this type of access. I don't do any forge welding ( at least when I do I don't heat in the gas forge).

I've been studying this idea for about six months and this is the last of the puzzle for me. any OTHER thoughts on retaining the blanket besides the nicrome wire stiching to a stainless steel expanded metal sub-liner, or screws from the outside?

I'm hoping to make this as fuel efficient as possible by using the "2 blanket, good coatings and burners possible. Expecting to use 3 rex style hybrid burners with individual controls and a floating back end block to be able to use only the space I need by the way.

Thanks 

I'd like to make a few hammers myself but don't have anyone to use as a striker, and really like to do work without depending on anyone else (call that North Idaho independent attitude) I'm wondering if I could drift the eye on my 14 ton Bentec press. I have about 12 inches of stroke to work with. I'd like to know if this is possible before making some H13 tools. Anyone know if this would work? I've seen video of the eye being done on a power hammer but don't think I have enough stroke on my old LG 100.

WOW now that's a big tap. We used to have a 3" twist drill we would use in a old Warner Swazy turret lathe with NO pilot hole, now dude that was a nasty chip.

HWH it runs at 60 RPM but I don't have enough punch slugs yet so that will bring the time down when I get another 100 pounds of them in there, I think.

There is no real reason to cast this part. Make a weldment and have it machined. Weld a section of DOM tubing to a plasma burn out and have it machined and trued up, done.

Frosty,

 How long has the bed liner goo been in your machine? If it lastsw at all that would be worth a try. The thing is so loud you can hear is running in my very well insulated shop from inside my house 200 feet away. I'm guessing 120 db or so. You can't be in the shop at all without ear muffs on, it would kill you. 

Danger D, there is a shop vac connection on the left side through a rotary vacuum union. I was not real sure adding one was of value but Larry at MM said they do work.

Hey yes 51 if you could move it that would be great, any area you think would be better is fine by me. Thanks

Finished our rotary tumbler. Works very well and should save a lot of time in the future. Thanks to Larry at Monster Metal, and Steve at Incandescent Iron Works for their suggestions. You can see some notes added to the pictures in my gallery. Basic information is; "48X"20, 60 RPM, Rolled "3/16 drum, Plasma cut end parts with pilots to accept machined "3 DOM axles

Vaughn....now dude tht's a good idea. I made something different but yours is bertter. That's what I love about this Iforge thing, there are so many smart kids out there. Cool

I just made a walkway arbor and drifted 27 of the crossing joints. They are 3/8” and I milled the drift from S7, heat treated it and left it sharp on the corners as milled after debur. My punch did fine but there was not much to drift as the pilot was 5/16”.
On a separate note I’ve started making all my punches / drifts from one bar size in S7 and then using a universal holder sleeve/striker out of 4140. The thinking is I save the S7 for the business end of the tool and the end I hit with a hammer is big 1 ½”. I don’t miss hitting it with the hammer as much and it’s larger longer diameter that I can hold better. I drill and ream a hole in the lathe to except the punches/drifts. Then set screw them in place. I use the same striker on all the punches and drifts so I only made one. I think this saves material and keeps me from holding some wennie diameter shortish punch.

Spokane Industries http://www.spokaneindustries.com has great capabilities and can pour about anything you want to pay for. I think that's who casts the Rhino Anvils for Steve. I have one of his anvils and like it.

Is there any inexpensive way to make concave shapes (forms) to use in making cupped shapes? I know you can purchase swage blocks but the shapes are too small. Sizes are on the order of 3-10” diameters with radius 4-20”. I’ve not gotten any prices but I’m guessing having them CNC machined in steel would be very expensive.

I’m not interested in having a pattern made to have them cast, I don’t think. We have a very good foundry here and they could cast anything I could dream up but I’m trying to be cheap…as usual.

Any ideas folks?

Update to my power hammer lubrication. I mentioned that I would report back if my rebuilt 100 pound LG hammer slide seized up while using way lube. Well in fact the slide has galled up and I think I just wasn’t oiling it enough. I was putting a small squirt of lube in the oiling cups every time I ran it and a few drips across the top of the dovetail as well. I think it was too small a volume to run across the entire sliding contact surfaces, keep them wet and flush out debris.
In any event I have reground the surfaces and will put it back together today. I’m going to use chain saw bar oil this time, a lot more of it and re-oil several times a day. I think the way oil was fine, but given how much more I’m going to use now, bar oil seems like a better choice to me. The hammer was working so well that it’s sad I’ve had to stop and rework it again.

Live and learn I guess…..I’d love to live a little more, and learn a little less some times.

I love this kind of salty feedback!
Your favorite double has exposed hammers an bored 28 gauge.
Your trout still go into your wicker creel and you wade wet or not atall.
You spit only once and only at the start of the day into your slack tube.
Your files have only wooden handles.

How do you all make your layouts for large projects? I've been drawing them on my shop floor. I have some nice saw cut lines in the floor to use as a gauge or baseline and some at right angles that work pretty well. Is there a better way of doing this? I spent a few hours today making a 5' compass for drawing arcs on the floor. You folks who make huge gates and furniture have this all figured out I'm guessing.

Bigfoot I stand corrected $6.00 not .60. serves me right typing things after midnight when I should be in bed. You might take a look at this heat treat link. I think its pretty much on the money and easy to follow.

http://tidewaterblacksmiths.net/2.html

How to tell if you are a purist;
You only pull hot metal from a forge heated by coal.
Drilling requires you spin the bit by hand, like starting a fire with a bow string and a stick.
You still fly fish with a hand spun bamboo rod and your patterns are hook, thread and feather ONLY.
You still use hickory shafted golf clubs with a forged head, that looks rather like a butter knife.
Cut plug like “days work” is still the only way you fly.
If it don’t have points in the ignition system or it has a xxxx computer chip in it, it ain’t worth drivin.
Any more of these, and I’m not poking fun I’m headed this way myself.

Here is my take on the subject of making tools. If you are going to the trouble to make a tool you must need it and it should be of good quality. To start with, making tools from mild steel or a steel that you’re unsure of the alloy, is a potential waste of time. A 6’ length of 4140 1” square bar costs me about $70.00, that’s about 60 cents for 6” long piece. If you are going to grind it, drill it, file it, mill or forge it to some shape, you should be able to heat treat it after words to get something worth having. The cost of the steel is little compared to your time.
McMaster sells slow or fast quench oil for $18.00 a gallon and it will last a long time. They sell tool steel as well (they are expensive) buy from your local steel company if you can. I like 4140 and S7 a lot. You can heat treat S7 to 1800f and let it air cool to quench, and if it’s not a delicate part use it as quenched, without annealing or stress reliving. All I’m saying is do it right the first time. I heat treat all my tools in a small gas forge, quench in air or quenching oil and anneal in the kitchen oven for 2 hour soak. In my past life we never did any heat treat in house, we always sent it out. I’m rather enjoying doing the whole process myself now, along with everything else.