SamT

Lol. Borntoolate, I've been trying to say that since the first post. Somehow the subject of trig and the example of the stand got swapped around. Title of my post was even changed. The point of this was supposed to be the trig formulas.

The title was changed to better reflect the subject of the post, how to use trig to set the legs of an anvil. If multiple examples were used, the original title would have been sufficient.

Understood. I already have a T shaped brace in the design. I originally made this post to show the trigonometric formulas in a way I thought was easier to understand than what I found online. The anvil stand was only meant as an example. I did get some new information that I will use, and I'm appreciative of that.

Where have I said I'm using an end-only leg attachment strategy?

No, I haven't made it to a meeting yet, though I keep intending to join. With work and all the things I have going on with building a house and new shop time is stretched thin so for now I just go to the shop when I need some relaxation and beat on stuff. Not really all that good at forging, but I seem to be getting better. Learning every time I do it. The swarf is from grinders cutting the teeth in sawblades. it's very fine, finer than most sand I would imagine. But yes lead would fill better because this stuff tends to be fluffy once you break it out of the cakes that the filter makes with it, would be hard to pack.

OK, ditching the chain idea then. Probably find some heavy section angle and invert it over the feet, I like that idea. Wouldn't the steel swarf in the legs be heavier than the sand though? Filling the legs with molten lead wouldn't be that big of a problem for me. I already have a smelting pot and a little camp stove I use to reduce wheel weights into ingots. Could pour straight down into the leg.

I can understand your way having it's merits too GRiley, if it works better for you then it's the better option. I just prefer having a comprehensive cut list. set the saw, cut three legs and weld them on. Thanks for this info Alec, I'll pull those legs in to 10^o or less and get rid of the wood feet. My reasoning for the wood feet was hoping to reduce ringing. That mousehole rings like a bell right now on the flimsy angle iron stand. Sheet of lead under the anvil will probably quiet it enough. Had planned for a 3"x4" foot with a 3/4 or so hole to peg it down into my dirt floor, so I had that part right at least. :P At the moment I'm thinking of popping two holes in that plate and putting 1" eye bolts with nuts underneath. Wrap the waiste of the anvil with a big chain and use the bolts and nuts like turnbuckles to cinch it down tight. May fill those 2" square legs with grinder swarf from work, its mostly steel with just a little alumina shed from the wheel. I'm sure the extra mass will help with vibrations, doubtful it will do much, but it's free.

So lets see, scrap the wood and that makes my vertical leg length 19 1/2". Now pull the angle in to 10^oso (19.5/cos10) = 19.8008" or right around 19 3/4". I don't think 50thou will make a difference!

I'm going to try and get that tube out and cut it this week then go to dad's shop and use his DC welder on it and a grinder pedestal with a truck (think kenworth, freightliner, etc) brake drum base. Just getting back into the shop from a few months where I've been wrapped up buying a piece of property and cleaning it up and this anvil stand is one thing I definately want. Right now my anvil is about midway between my wrist and elbow! :o very uncomfortable.

(edit) Will take pics too!

Well I was designing the stand during a slow night at work, so I couldn't use the real world way. My shop time is scarce these days so the more I can have definite measurements the better. Posted this for the formula in case anyone could use it on any triangles they needed to figure out. ;) GRiley, pythagorean theorum works if you know the length of any two legs of the triangle. I wanted the angle to be one of my constants since I'm using square tubing for legs, 20* seemed about right and easy to cut with the chop saw. If i had decided I wanted a specific height and a specific offset at the floor, then I would have ended up with a weird angle to cut.

Having recently migrated back to windows, and lacking free CAD software, I used trigonometry to figure out the length needed for angled legs on a steel anvil stand I'm designing for my Mousehole. Really easier than I thought, figured I would post it here so anyone else who may ever need to do something similar can have have a reference if needed.

Ok, I want my face to be 32 1/2" off the floor, this is simple to figure out once parts are known anvil is 11 1/2, so that's 21 to top of stand. 1 1/4 plate for the top gets us down to 19 3/4, 1/4 for steel feet makes it 19 1/2, then 1 1/2 for 2x4 wood feet under those makes our final measurement for leg height 18"

(Notice, this is done in windows default calculator. go to view, and select "scientific. If you use any other scientific calculator, I imagine it's operation will be different, windows calc.exe isn't very intuitive with the trig functions)

Now for the trig. I want my legs splayed 20 degrees from vertical. Cosine is used to find the adjacent length. Since the leg itself will be the hypotenuse of a 20/70/90 triangle, and 18" is the adjacent leg, we have to work this in reverse. Normally trigonometric functions are solved with the hypotenuse given, and cosine is used to find the adjacent leg length by multiplying like this "A=cos20*H" where H is the hypotenuse, A is the adjacent, and 20 is the angle in degrees. Since we have the adjacent length instead (18") we simply change the formula to "H=A/cos20" so we enter into the calculator "18/" Here hit the "(" button, then type "20" and hit the "cos" button. now hit the ")" and finally "=" our result will be 19.155199904... It continues into absurdity, but since I'm using a chop saw, we'll call it 19 1/8" B) If we used the sine of 70* in this formula, the answer will be the same, it's all relative to what angle you input into the calculator.

Say I wanted to know just how far out from under the base the feet will be. This length will be the "opposite" let. The formula for finding the opposite is "O=sin20*H" Where O is the opposite, H is hypotenuse, and 20 is the angle in degrees. Into the calculator we punch "19.125/" then "(" and "20" then hit "sin" ")" The answer will come out 6.541135... Again continuing. We'll call this one 6 9/16 just because we can.

You can use these for any other triangles of course.

There is a .bmp image attached that puts this into more of a visual format, I had to see it to understand it, so I redrew it simpler than what I could find online.

Let me know if this helps anyone or if I made any mistakes! B)

SimpleTrig.bmp

Got the steel cut for the vise! Took the better part of the day. 3 cuts through 2"x2" solid and 5 cuts through 1/2"x6" solid with my horrible fright bandsaw. The cuts all look like they were milled, and while I waited I got the outlets for the permanent shop lights wired up. Hope I get to keep the building...

It seems to get the steel yellow quick enough. Sorta limited in size with only a 4x4.5x9 chamber, but both ends have doors so long stuff fits in fine. I can always whip up a brakedrum forge if I'm ever limited with it.

Did I ever show you guys my completed forge? :D

Thanks for the encouragement. I may even get two days off work this week, if so I hope to get the vise built inbetween working on my truck and whatever needs done around the house. If not I'll just have to do a little each night around midnight when I get home or in the morning before I leave. Still need to make some tongs too. made an attempt that came out butt-ugly.

Think I'll start cutting stock for the post vise in the second pic when I get home. (Ya, that's what that is, lol) I think the idea came from anvilfire, not certain, I just changed it a bit to suit what I have on hand. Should weigh in at over 100#. Yall want pics of the vise build? Is that a stupid question?

Been so busy between work and family issues I haven't even had time to practice with clay. I'm going to make some shop time though, probably help with my stress.

Haven't set foot in the shop in over a month. I'm starting to get the shakes from withdrawls. Think I need to work on a project or two.

Thanks steve, I've got 48" of steel on the way, so I can HT and temper a few test pieces and put them on the rockwell tester at work to check it out. Does the rest of my process look ok? Hayden, I had thought of a file, but I don't have any that don't still cut I need a blank of 1.5x12, and I don't think any files are that wide. If there are, then it's doubtful I could get one for less than the approx. $5 ($20 for 48", 48/12 = 4. 20/4= $5 ) for the piece of 5160 I ordered.

I want to check my understanding of the process before I get started. First rough shape the blade with the grinder/saw/hammer. Second heat to bright red, and let cool in air 3x to normalize. Third heat to bright red, quench in warm oil, wipe oil and directly into temper oven at 400* for two hours, repeat temper two more times over the next two days. Should I check for nonmagnetic during normalization and hardening? Just remove from forge every 30 seconds or so and check with magnet on a string?

Thanks for the offer, but I already have a 4' piece of 5160 on the way. :)

Thanks for the replies! I can buy 5160 online, I'm planning on a 3/16 spine since he has been known to pop the bones out of socket with his knife on occasion. It will be a no nonsense blade for sure, he's excited about the fact that I'll be making it, not that its flashy, but a high polish will be mandatory for cleaning and rust prevention.

I asked my father if he would like me to try making a knife for him for his christmas present this year. He seemed excited about it, and I agreed that I would try, but couldn't promise one just yet. I need to choose a steel, and I'm leaning towards 5160 because it is forgiving in the heat treat. From what I've read it should be a good choice, but I've also read that L-6 is a good beginner's steel, as is O-1. I'm planning on a bowie-patterned skinning knife, most likely around 10" long. I would like a bright, polished blade, which has me leaning towards L-6. How bright will 5160 be with a good polish? Are any of these steels more rust resistant than others? My method of choice to make the blade will be stock removal. I have a propane forge, and for tempering I have a small toaster oven, max temp is 500*F if I remember correctly.

lol, I don't envy the fuel economy there. Maybe if you were forging anvils?

I think what you're looking for is a rotary broach. It wobbles as it or the work turns and makes the hole. Can get them in square, hexagon, octogon, etc. High dollar though.

Went to my uncle charles's shop again today to look at a drill press. Turned out the drill press wasn't much bigger than what I have so i passed on it, but when I turned around I noticed a nice big mag drill on the table that had been covered by junk up till then. Its a milwaukee, MT3 spindle I beleive, thats all I see listed besides chuck models, which would make it the biggest we make (I work for milwaukee) 1 1/4 capacity with a twist drill. I can beleive its the biggest, its about all the weight i would wanna tote around all day motor is about 6" diameter and a foot tall. Buttons on the back of the base are in pretty sad shape, going to check with the refurb guy tommorow to see if the new model control panel will fit. Think we only make one base, and it looks the same as the catalog picture except for the shoe, so it should.

Well all my brick is in. May start on putting the forge together tonight. Should I skim the inside with my 3000* mortar for some extra protection?

My dad says the same thing monstermetal, its old so its likely a 20.