BeaverDamForge

brake drums are cast iron, so you cant weld it. my brake drum forge uses 2 inch pipe. i found a 2 inch flange to use, and drilled new holes to mount it on. use stainless steel bolts on it, you dont want zinc coated bolts near fire.

Depending on the brake drum, the center may not be cast. Cast iron can be welded with the right rod/preheat/extended cooling.

Good Luck!

I used a brake drum with a hole slightly larger than some 2 1/2" exhaust pipe I had. I flared the end of the pipe over the edge of the anvil as shown in the blueprint for the 55-gal drum forge. The bottom of the pipe runs into a 5-gal bucket of water to seal it, put out embers that fall through the grate, and quench. I cut a hole and threaded a pipe nipple into the 2 1/2" tube above the bucket for air feed.

Good Luck!

I've been told that gypsies in Hungary and surrounding countries would set up camp at the end of a village and make items of copper and iron for the villagers. This is how axes and other implements got distributed to the small villages.

I don't know if they had portable forges or just used campfires.

Good Luck!

Have you ever noticed how pop cans expand when frozen? This has to do with the molecules lining up or something, ...

It has to do with water expanding when it freezes. Same reason ice floats.

Good Luck!

Metal Muncher, glad to help. I'm sure she will love having a knife made by you. there's something about using a tool, be it pen, knife, whatever that was hand crafted (especially by someone you know), that is just a pleasure. I've made a few chef knives for friends, but mine generally turn out looking like something Steven Segal would use, kind of a tactical kitchen knife.
Apprenticeman, pretty much what Frosty said. I couldn't quote you a source about 5160 leaf springs, its just something that I've been told, read about, heard about for years.
Frosty thanks for the coil spring info. I didn't know that. Does it make good knives, tools etc? I've heard about people using coil spring for knives, just assumed it was 5160.
Beaverdam, I didn't mention about the chicken blood, magnetic north, or the full moon...... You should see me forge on Halloween:o I'm not enough of a metalurgist to describe why normalizing works, but I've seen the results. Particularly if you forge really HOT, you get grain growth (large grain bad...), you can see the diff if you heat some high carbon steel up to almost yellow hot and quench it, then take a similar piece keep it down in the red/orange range, normalize, quench. Then break the two and look at the break. The "hot one" will be sparkley, the normalized one will be smooth and sort of satiny. You can really see the diff in the grain size.
Ed

Thanks for the reply (and also Thomas)! I understand that the grain will grow at temps higher than critical and being held at higher temps. Hammering will break it down. But I thought normalizing involved bringing the steel to critical and letting it air cool (for most steels). That would provide the reset in grain size, and not holding it at or above critical doesn't let them grow.

This is from my father's old mechanical engineering book The Working, Heat Treating, and Welding of Steel (1942; $2.10 (used, I think, but for a college text...))

"When a piece of annealed steel composed of large grains of ferrite and pearlite is heated, the size of the grains is not changed until the lower critical temperature is reached. At this temperature the pearlite changes to austenite, and the coarse grains of ferrite gradually dissolve in the austenite as the temperature is raised through the critical range. The average minimum grain size is attained near the upper critical temperature, where the transformation to austenite is completed. When this piece of steel is cooled slowly from a temperature slightly above critical range, small grains of ferrite and pearlite will be retained at room temperature."

It doesn't say specifically*, but that seems to agree with what I've been told 'normalizing' is. At any rate, this is where I got the idea that grain size is not affected at less than critical, is that wrong?

Good Luck!

*Normalizing isn't mentioned until later, in the heat treating chapter. They show the 'normalizing range' above the 'heat treating and annealing range'. They mention it being a prep for annealing, but no mention of multiple cycles (third times the charm ). Maybe without the multiple cycles parts of the steel don't get hot enough, especially when done in large batches.

Prior to quench heat it to a dull red and let cool two or three times. This will help reduce the grain size (smaller grain= better performance)...

[snip]
Ed Wilson
Happycat Cutlery

Why would heating below critical temp change grain size? Doesn't crystaline structure (grain size) reset when the steel is heated through critical? I'm not sure if I understand properly, some procedures seem like voodoo...

Good Luck!

I built a box bellows out of some prefinished plywood I had laying around, which helped determine the dimensions. I made the stroke shorter than the one in the drawing you have, it's about 13" IIRC (stops on the handle prevent the piston from crossing the exhaust holes). Shorter stroke and square cross section made more sense to me. I used some stiffeners in the middle of the sides because it's 1/4" (if you squint right) plywood. The piston and ends are 3/4", and the valves are 1/4", hinged with red duct tape (what I had). The handle is plastic tubing, I cut it shorter and used a piece of rubber hose for a grip. I also had to plug it, it was leaking air from the back side of the piston. The piston seals with a foam strip ( 1/2" 'backer rod') and a strip of towel stapled over it. The pushrod seal is a piece of towel too.

The chamber on the side houses the exhaust valves and brings the air to the tuyere connection. The air has nowhere else to flow and plenty of area to flow through, so no restriction there. Entering the pipe going to the tuyere might produce some turbulence, but the velocities are low enough it makes little difference. I used a piece of flex exhaust pipe to connect to the forge. I also swapped ends after using it once and deciding I'd rather use my left hand.

Good Luck!

My only qualm about burning the wood and biomass directly is the efficiency issue. I may stack firebricks around the firepot to catch some of the heat from the burning gasses. My main need for a solid fuel forge, however, is in the fact that the fire can hold up smaller pieces, and is open enough to specifically heat certain points on awkward shaped pieces, mainly large animal heads and forks when they are still T. I also see so much useable old wood that it seems almost criminal not to use it when I could.

I think I'll make the firepot out of 3/8th plate. I just checked the welder I have on hand, and the thickest it can do is 3/8ths.

be merry,
Archie

Problem is, the burning gasses happen above the biomass, the heat is not much use up there. I did use that effect to help preheat the chips by keeping the chimney less full. Keeping chip size fairly constant is important, it can vary but it's better not to mix large and small chunks.

Here's a link to an early version of my chimney setup;
http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/i-made-my-first-charcoal-3320/index2.html#post25971
The chimney got a bit bigger (but not enough as I was limited to stacking a few bricks) after reading Frosty's reply, which is worth checking out.

Good Luck!

Hello fine lads'n lasses!
As some of you know, I've been working with a waste-oil forge of my own design and build for about the past year. I absolutely love it. It's allowed me to work without having to pay for fuel, and to be honest I've gone and spoilt myself, since I can get to a yellow heats within minutes without having to constantly check my wallet.

Its only flaw is that it restricts the shape of work I can do, and makes working small pieces rather difficult to keep track of. So, I'm taking advantage of my college's machine shop, to fabricate a solid fuel forge. But, as is probably evident from my making of a waste-oil forge, originally intended for waste veggie oil, fossil fuels (coal and gas) are not my bag.

THE MAIN POINT/QUESTION:
D'you think that the firepot design by Bob Patrick from a few years ago (I have the templates for the pieces, comes to about 3 inches deep) would be deep enough to get steel-anything below 1 inch square hot, and be able to support a coking layer of wood/biomass over the top of the fire? If not, lets talk design.

EDIT: Everything biomass really needs to be charcoaled, so I guess what my question should be is: d'you think a 3 inch deep coal fire pot will work okay for charcoaled biomass (pine cones, wood chunks, and tree nuts charcoaled, mostly)? I'm wanting to do a bottom blast to allow room for the material to coke around the fire pot.

be merry
Archie

link to the firepot design: Fabricated Fire Pot by Bob Patrick

Before the gasifier, I was just using wood chips (twice as much!). I found that seperating the charcoaling fire from the forging charcoal let the charcoal get hotter. A chimney with it's own natural draft worked well. I'd like to try using an air chamber around a chimney to preheat the air to the charcoal if I build another forge like that. Not utilizing that heat is throwing away half of the fuel.

Good Luck!

Nice forge Kovacija!

Beaver, I was thinking of setting up a dimmer (fan speed control, not a light dimmer, big difference between the two) and an air baffle for twice the control. I'm thinking it might be healthier for the motor to have the baffle on the outlet instead of the inlet (better cooling for the motor).

One thing to remember about fan speed control dimmers is that they control %50 to %100 of the motors output and you shouldn't use a light dimmer. A ceiling fan speed control switch would be perfect and is designed to control motors (I don't know the technical details, has to do with the different capacitance of a light vs. an electric motor).

I'm going to try and get all the parts together this weekend to build the forge, I'll take pictures for everyone.

The fan controls may be PWM (pulse width modulation) controllers, that would be a good thing.

If you restrict the inlet instead, you take the load off the motor and don't make as much heat. When the RPM goes up the current drops, and the windings passing current will make a lot more heat than the bearings. Restricting the outlet forces the blower to make pressure, with all the air it can work with. That's the most load you can put on the motor.

I looked around a bit and found that trying to run an AC motor at less than 1/3 rated speed is thermally bad too.

Of course none of that means it won't work for years or that it will kill your electric bill.

Good Luck!

(Edit: I've been running a shaded pole motor/squirrel cage fan in a box for a few months now, several hours at a time a few days a week. The inlet is usually restricted to 1/16", tapering to nothing 1" in either direction. I haven't checked the temp after shutdown but if it were a problem I'd probably know by now... In retrospect, I probably should have made the inlet on the motor side rather than the fan side.)

I was thinking the same thing Fish, I was looking at squirrel cage blowers on Grainger Industrial Supply

I was considering these two items:
Blower,60 CFM,3030 DAYTON 4C441
Fan Speed Control,3 A DAYTON 1DGV1

But I am unsure about how much CFM would be best for such a forge. I can imagine going for higher CFM and dialing it down with the speed control would be a good way to go (better to have more than not enough! I ).

Lots of options on that site... I'm still poking around to see if there are better options or deals.
HVACR > Blowers > Small Centrifugal Blowers : Grainger Industrial Supply

I have a blower similar to that, I'm not sure of the specs (it was on a wood stove) but the motor is about 2 1/2" in diameter and 3" long. I built a box around it and control the inlet air. With my brake drum forge I had to nearly close off the inlet.

I'm not sure what a shaded pole motor is and how well it will respond to a dimmer control (Anybody know?). The "fan curve" is another thing to consider, if you use only a small fraction of the blower's capacity controlling it gets tricky. I've seen setups where you turn the knob to get a bit more blast and nothing much happens, turn it a little more and you've got full blast!

A gate control is easy enough to set up and will give good control for sure. I prefer to regulate the inlet, it unloads the fan and reduces current draw.

Good Luck!

Make one up if you like, if you are a "Mike" but don't want to use your real name on line then just go with "Joe" or "Mac", etc.

Is it OK to use a different name on each post?

John

Good Luck!

I made a hot cut chisel out of a file, and let it air cool. It stays sharp in hot metal unlike the one I made out of medium carbon (rail anchor) steel.

Good Luck!

A lot of people call their hammer "Mjolnir" after Thor's hammer. I want to see them come back when thrown...

My gasifier forge is "The Dragon's Cave"

Good Luck!

I find the closer the jaws are to the shape of the iron, the better the grip. YMMV

Good Luck!

Hi! This is my first post.

Some months ago I found a site for appropriate technology for third world development and there are 2 of the thousands of bulletins available, that deal with blacksmithing and blowers. A double action inner tube bellows by Inversin, and an oil drum forge with single action inner tube bellows and the construction of a centrifugal blower in the same bulletin; they are in this address (just checked and they are still there).

http://www.cd3wd.com/CD3WD_40/CD3WD/index.htm

Ok, now I

There are a lot of individual makers to compete with too. It's hard to make a name for yourself so your blades will pull big bucks.

That's what I found when going to shows with an amateur bladesmith a few years ago, anyway.

Good Luck!

Alternates: How about Far King Forge? Free Ken Forge?

Good Luck!

just wondering...do ppl consider it completely idiotic to have a wooden smithy?

I've seen pics and plans to build the forge itself out of wood. My smithy is just a lean-to against the house, I got some oaks from the woods. Setting one of them on fire would take some doing. Kiln dried pine might be a different story.

http://www.georgeforge.com/Wooden%20Forges.htm

Good Luck!

I'm not sure how well that would go over around here. The oil and contaminants might leach into ground water supplies. Dumping oil on the ground (not to mention sewers) has been illegal for years AFAIK, and the EPA is fairly good at finding the source.

Good Luck!

point well taken and i dont see why that wouldnt be a good idea, just not sure on how the fibers would stand in the forge heat environment but other than that i dunno.
oh and any idea what 4.45 pounds is in US dollar and stop laughing i know our dollar in sucking pond water these days

here's a link on the adobe forge deal using a different type of bonding substance....haahaahaa enjoy..........


http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/building-forge-3016/

If you're getting to a temp to melt glass the clay will already be fused.

Really, the straw just needs to hold things until the clay dries, to help prevent large cracks. Glass would be unnessecary expense IMO.

Good Luck!

Why, BeaverDamForge, of course!!

Good Luck!

Beaverdam, the gasifier I made didn't work so well, it was very very jury-rigged/jerry built. I once saw a video of a "dasifier" made my a guy called Das, which he used to fire a bronze furnace, got plenty hot.
be merry,
Archie

Heck, mine is just some stove pipe, but I found I needed a stainless core tube from the local muffler shop. It's basically a big MIDGE with a blower or a turbostove, operated in continuous updraft mode. My build is buried in this thread:
http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/fuel-5001/

The 'Dasifier' link there got me started too - my club had just had a demo on bronze casting so I knew it should be hot enough.

I'm working on a smaller, better insulated oven to try to get a little more heat - hoping for yellow. It was working better than my wood/charcoal forge did, on about half as much wood.

I'm trying to figure out a good downdraft setup without using a compressor - blowers are so much cheaper to obtain and maintain.

Good Luck!

The lump charcoal I've used sparks like crazy when you start getting the heat up. The "fleas" that pop out are pinhead sized and they "bite"! Burning wood down to charcoal doesn't produce "fleas" but pitch pockets may pop.

The wood gas solvarr mentioned is half the energy in the wood, it's a shame to just burn it off. If I set up another wood-charcoal forge I'll burn the wood in a chimney and preheat the fire air in a jacket around the chimney.

Good Luck!

Be careful about this! Treat all flying metal with a great deal of seriousness. I heard a story of a fellow who daubed hardfacing on the end of his punches to make them last longer. One day, he just collapsed and couldn't bring himself to stand up. One of his coworkers saw a tiny bit of blood on his shirt and the hospital found the end of his punch on the x-ray. Now, this story may or may not be true, but I have a buddy who was a paramedic, and said it is entirely realistic. The guy slumps down like a sack of potatoes and they call 911, then somebody remembers hearing a "ping". This guy always wears a leather apron when hitting anything hardened. Figure he should know.

"Daubed hardfacing"? Have I missed something?

Things don't have to be hardened to fly when struck. I heard a story about somebody getting a shard from a mushroomed chisel in the knee. Just a small hole, but by the end of the day he couldn't stand on it. After surgery it was a good while before his knee was right again.

Good Luck!