DanBrassaw

I've spent some time in our local historical museums shop, and they have what appears to be 2 inch or so material for the floor. I have no idea of the foundation, wish I'd thought of asking! It's a stone building, I would assume the foundation is as well. Also assuming (we know what happens when we assume, right?) there's at least a crawl space, and I'm 99.99% sure there's no basement. Not sure what you mean by "prepared." I can't vouch for the historical accuracy of this building, though it's my understanding that it was a working blacksmith shop sometime in the 1800's. My friend works at the museum, and I never poked him for much info, since I don't spend more than a few hours a month there. 'Fraid I have no idea of the wood species.1 I can guarantee that the end grain is horizontal. The only time I've seen end grain on edge is for cutting blocks. Unless you're asking if it was quarter sawn or flat sawn, in which case I'm pretty sure this particular floor was flat sawn. I can't say for sure, but from what I know of shop spaces, cheap shop owner mentality, and wood in general, the wood was preserved by nothing other than keeping the roof from leaking. We don't have much more than carpenter ants up here, and even they're not much of a worry usually. Also not sure how (or if!) this floor was maintained, but it shows some obvious wear from daily use. Those are my speculations on a particular old northern NY shop. I'll be sure to ask my friend, he knows worlds more about it than I do.

Yeah, that's what I was picturing. What I was trying to say in that grammatical abomination of a sentence about forces, is "I don't know which force, torsional or shear, iron and welds hold up to better..." There we go. :D

A pic would help.

Using a rotary tool with an appropriate bit you can cut a ring off the stone. Fasten the tool to the frame and rotate the stone by hand to cut it in multiple passes. This is safest as the fractured stone is removed. This will reduce your diameter and true the stone.

I presume this is a foot powered stone, so 50-100 rpm is the max it can go, depending on how you pedal. Exceeding this is very dangerous even for a stone in excellent condition.

Depending on what you are planing on doing you can profile the stone instead using a similar method. Avoid sharp internal corners.

Phil

Rotary tool is a good idea, but what kind of bit would you use for that? Mine didn't have a big chunk missing, but I did have to take about 3/4 off the radius to get rid of a big swell (probably from a chunk breaking off then continued use). I used an old carbide tip saw blade, I held it on it's side, and moved it back and forth using one tooth at a time to cut into the wheel. Once I got past the defect, I just ground into some bar stock to take down the high grooves that were left by my less than perfect dressing method.



P.S. Taking 3/4" off of a 20 inch or so diameter wheel took me several dusty and painful hours. The seat on my grinder wasn't meant for that kind of endurance race, and it's a heck of a workout. I don't highly recommend it, but it does work.

Not sure what you mean, something like the pivot plates, only secured parallel to the moving leg, instead of perpendicular to the fixed leg? I would think that would be stronger, since the force is only shear at that point, instead of torsional. But then again, I don't know which force iron or welds holds up to better, so I might be totally wrong.

Hey fellow metal mangler! check out the website www.nysdba.com we are always willing to welcome new folks, and you have some really good people right close to you. I currently am the newsletter editor, and have been thinking of doing new member stuff, so if you are thinking of joining or have already, let me know! Anyway, look out, it's an addiction that is really hard to shake!!
M

Thanks for the info and welcome. My friend has been to two gatherings so far, I missed the first one due to some laziness, and the second I just couldn't make. Hope to catch the next one. Found the website through google, its nysdb.org

welcome to your new obsession, and welcome to IFI! note; no chicken coop is gonna be big enough,for all the tools you will accumulate, and leave enough room to swing a hammer.

My great uncle had a lot of chickens. This coop is 20x60 ft. Haven't felt claustrophobic yet. :P

I've been lurking around these forums for a few weeks, posted here and there recently, and to be honest, the list of forum sections is so long, and my attention span in so short, that I just found this category today! Well, I know a guy who knows a guy, and that guy is a smith! All the talk of hot metal got me thinking, so when we had an early thaw right after Xmas I cleared out an old chicken coop and started welding up some gear, and collecting tools. I'm now an accomplished mess maker and mangler of metal (how's that for alliteration!) Anyhow, that's my story, see you around.

I reckon the pivot area at floor level would get full of shop dust, swarf, and crud rather quickly. Given your idea, I envision a really long spring, but in the early days, high carbon spring steel was very dear. Furthermore, it is easier for a smith to temper a short spring than a long one. The spring exerts pressure immediately above the pivot area, because there is less throw there.

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

Good point on the shop dust, I hadn't thought of that at all. But I pictured a movable pin to change the parallel jaw width, so it would be easy(ish) to clean out, depending on how heavy the setup was. As far as the spring goes, I don't think it would have to be any longer. To be honest, I've only worked with a post vise once, so I don't recall what kind of tension it had on it, but it only has to overcome whatever friction is in the screw mechanism to work properly, right? The spring could even be mounted lower, as long as it maintained enough pressure to open the vise. I can't imagine it would have to be any longer than usual.

Swung by my bosses house today to give him a birthday present of a hook, and a canning jar opener to hang on it (those two things and nails are all I know how to make yet ), and I hacked off the five feet of hoop that wasn't embedded in ice. Once it melts down a bit, I'd like to get them over to my shop in one piece, but I'm pretty sure the logistics of that are unreal. The bands are 5/8", as rthibeau said, with 3/4" tensioning rods, 2 or 3 feet long.


Here's the hook and opener (credit for the idea goes to someone on these forums, wish I could remember who!) It didn't occur to me to make the loop on top of the opener large enough to hang on the hook until I was done, at which point I was totally out of coal and finishing in a kindling fire. I didn't have a torch, so I ran over to my dad's shop and opened it up with a pair of needle nose pliers, that's when it got significantly uglier. C'est la vie. On the bright side, I didn't even think of which way I was twisting the two items, but I lucked out.

That's a great picture Ram. Here's one I took when I was really excited that my cob-job hood worked:

Wrought iron can be found at old farm sites where a silo was.....5/8" round rod was used as the bands to hold them together. Old wagons with wood wheels had wrought iron bands as the "tire". Ships had anchors and anchor chain of wrought iron. Over 110 years old and it's probably wrought iron. Bridges, structural iron in buildings, etc.....it was everywhere.

My boss tore down his 100+ yr old wood silo last year. About 6 hours ago today several very slow moving gears in my head clicked into place. One phone call, and he said I can have all the bands except one (why he wants to keep one is beyond me, but hes as much of a hoarder as most of the people I know). Even if it's not wrought, I'm still excited at the prospect of a lot of free metal.

I don't know what the story is behind that first vise, but by god I want one.

I was driving around earlier, and this popped into my head. Why is the pivot point on a leg vise located as high as it is? I don't have a good vise yet, and I've looked at some various plans for fabricating one, and those plans all have the pivot point where it is on "regular" leg vises. Wouldn't it be advantageous to have a larger foot, with both the leg and pivot point located there? Then instead of the leg taking all the downward pressure, it would take half (or so, depending), the other half bearing on the hinge pin. The longer moving leg would provide more parallel jaw action. I discussed it with a friend, and the only downside we could think of is more flex possible on the moving arm, from the screw pressure. But with the stock size involved in most vises, I can't picture that being an issue. Any reasons why this wouldn't work? And any ideas as to why the current design is like it is? It uses less material, sure, and weighs less, and perhaps it's just overkill to do it a different way, but since mass seems to be king in a smith's shop, I can't see that being much of a deterrent. :P

Mine is 22" in dia. It's built from the core of sheet metal rolls a local company uses. I'm not limited on the size of fire I build and even with a small fire it rips the smoke up the stack!!

Holy cow! As a bonus, you can rent it out as an apartment when work is slow!

As far as clearance is concerned, the folks I know around here told me I needed very little, as in 2 inches. I was a little skeptical, but figured I could change the framing around later if I felt uncomfortable. I use a 12 inch pipe, and have roughly 18 inches between rafters in my shop. I've had maybe a dozen fires so far, and only once has the first 2' length of pipe gotten uncomfortable to hold my hand to. I use a side draft, and that hood only gets hot when I have a really ripping fire going, or start the coal with kindling. I'll be interested to see if that changes when the ambient air that's getting sucked in and cooling things off warms up this summer. If you put sheet metal on the rafters to reflect any heat off of them, you might be OK with 1 1/4" clearance, but I'd wait to hear from more experienced folks than myself. Also, if you plan on attaching a wood stove to it at some point, then I'd definitely go with more clearance, and insulated pipe. I couldn't locate any 12 inch stove pipe (though I've read that people use vent products or other appropriately sized pipes). A friend suggesting using 2 6" snap together pipes, which worked, but if you go that route, secure them with metal banding or anything else, they don't like to stay together like that. When I was asking around about clearance requirements, my father suggested that I take a larger diameter pipe over my 12', fill with vermiculite (or ceramic wool), and weld on caps, to make my own insulated pipe. Since I didn't end up going that route, I can't recommend or denounce it, just an idea.

Edit: After re-reading this, I realized that when I say "I had a dozen fires", it's not necessarily clear that I mean in my forge. :P

Though it may look like a closed building, there's no door, holes in most of the windows, and holes in the windows in the back, that are at ground level. Plus with rafter end ventilation (this used to be a chicken coop), I'm pretty well off in the CO department. A fire extinguisher is a definite must, though. That old hemlock can go up mighty fast! But you're right, once I get the place buttoned up a little better this summer, I'll put a detector in.

Let me rephrase your post a bit: "I don't have a lot of money so I want to spend a whole lot of time, consumables and rod that would add up to several times the cost of just getting a big hunk of steel and all to make a not very good anvil". When phrased this way does it sound different?

Well, it sure does sound different, but you left out the "have a heck of a lot of fun while trying to do something silly" part!

If you are a good welder put up a card at the local feed store saying "will trade welding for a good using anvil".

I'm not a very experienced welder, certainly not enough to warrant work for others. But there's only one way to get better. Even if the finished product isn't much better than my railroad rail, I'll probably at least have learned something (like "just buy an anvil, you fool!")

I beam is terrible for an anvil as it's made for a totally different use---they want it as light as possible for it's size Anvils profit from being a "compact" a mass of steel---any daylight under where the hammer hits is a loss!

This I agree with you on, though I might still see if I have what I need for the boxed in scrap idea. With any luck, while digging the beam out of the snow, I'll find an enormous piece of steel I can just set on a stump and be done with. A guy can dream, right?

I haven't tackled tongs from scratch yet, but I did find to old pairs of nips. I worked the smaller pair while still riveted, with a fair amount of success, and got the jaws fairly straight. I heated the larger pair too far though, and when I went to straighten the jaws I sheared the rivet. While this makes working on each jaw easier, now I'm presented with the challenge of making them meet up right when I get them back together. Thanks for all the kind words! I've been scouring this forum for about a week now, and I've barely scratched the surface of information here. Hope I can add to that eventually. :)

Well, thanks for all the suggestions! The reason I was interested in making one is that I really enjoy that sort of thing. I plan on keeping my eyes open for a "real" one, but in the mean time, I wouldn't consider it a waste to fart around with a welder. I like mike's idea of making a cube with various radii. Now I just have to work up the courage to drag the torches out into the snowy woods to slice off a chunk of that I beam... :P

Kinda .
I've been having bad luck in my part of the country (upstate NY) finding an anvil at a reasonable cost, and I have all sorts of scrap. I found a chunk of 1/4 inch SOMETHING that was shaped like a cone, from 4 inches to 1 inch over 12 inches lengh, with a threaded rod on the end (figured I could tap a chunk of metal thread it on, and grind it to fit) for the horn. I have a few various lengths of I beam in my woods, would make a great stand I would think, with a 1/4 inch, 2'x2' base, gusseted, with some hard metal welded, or bolted (so I could harden/temper?) on top. What I'd like to know is, does anyone have any experience with this kind of setup? Not the horn so much, I'm of the opinion that can be rigged up out of a lot of different things if one swings in that direction. But would a roughly 6x8 I beam be enough mass underneath? What kind of metal would I need for the surface? I don't know much (in fact, very little!) about the properties of metal, and I'm also broke , so my plan is to give the ol' doe eyes to the local steel farm. Any ideas/suggestions?

I've gotten into smithing very recently (a few weeks or so), and here's my setup. I'd like to hear comments, things I'm missing, not thinking of, etc. I'm lucky enough to be in the acquaintance of a couple experienced smiths, but I don't see them regularly, and neither have seen my actual set up. So far I've only made a few coat hooks and nails, and poker for my forge, and some other small projects. So I guess my other question is, what are some good starting projects? I have the Complete Modern Blacksmith, and Plain and Ornamental Forging, but my ADD kicks in, and I can't shoulder a rod just to shoulder a rod, though I do my best to work through some of the exercises. Anyways, here's a pic that shows my forge and "anvil" setup. I have a post drill (found in my basement!) and a treadle grinder as well, and I've been surprised at how much I've used the grinder since I dressed the stone.

Edit: The flap seen on the hood has since been cut off, that picture was taken when I was still adjusting my opening size. It drafts well now, though I get an occasional puff of smoke when something flares up on the outer edge of the firepot, or when I heap it too high.