ajclay

Lets take that thing apart and see what makes it go.... Aj

Ciladog, lets stay focused on the simplest scenario regardless on how flawed it is. Doesn't controlling the exhaust valve control the speed...? Seems to me it does. It controls how fast the cylinder moves, because it can't move till the air is bled off in the direction it's going... Bleed it off fast and the cylinder moves fast.... Monstermetal, you having fun stirring the pot?? Thanks ciladog. AJ

Yep, that makes sense. So with this type of set up, spring/pilot - nothing moves without opening the exhaust valve. That in turn means, all stops (ram) at any given location when the exhaust valve closes... Does that sound right? Thanks, AJ

There's a bunch of these cartoons out there, but I haven't seen one for this hammer. There's a time factor that I don't have a handle on. It takes time for the air to move from one place to another and while that is happening the ram is moving. How much I guess it depends on where the top pilot valve is set, how quickly the exhaust is going out, and how fast the ram is moving. Simplest air spool valve - spring return - one pilot valve. Below is what happens ( I THINK ) when the air turned on only... Foot off of treadle.. 1) Everything in the spool valve is at atmospheric pressure. The spring has moved the piston to one end in the spool valve. 2) Air (100psi) is turned on and the ram rises (treadle not stepped on) (exhaust valve is closed)Piston in spool valve lets air flow to the bottom of air cylinder. 3) Ram hits roller valve at top of stroke. the pilot roller valve lets 100psi into the top of the spool valve, air pressure over comes spring pressure on piston in the spool valve and now it lowers. 4) 100psi is diverted to the top of air cylinder and the ram starts to lower. 4) Exhaust still closed, the ram lowers till the pressure in the bottom of air cylinder gets to the same pressure as the 100psi is putting on the top of the air cylinder. 5) With surface area being larger under the air cylinder piston it should stop before it gets half way on the down stroke. Does this make sense so far...?? Close to the way things work?? Once I get this straight in my head then I'll step on the treadle. I'm just trying to make things go (bam) (bam) as ciladog puts it. Thanks, Aj

I knew this was going to get deep fast. I starting to understand a little about how things work. Building a hammer is the easiest, measure, cut and weld. But the operation of the hammer is somewhat of a mystery because I've never used one. So that being said, I don't know what I need or don't need for controls. The Bull design attracts me because of the challenge of making all the parts and adapting to my hammer. Drawing and build things is a wonderful hobby. Makes me happy and keeps me out of trouble. I've got to learn and experience how the New Style Kinyon is going to work with the simplest form of controls. Once I get a little time under my belt with the hammer I'll better understand what the other controls offer. Sooner or later I'm going to have a hammer with the Bull type controls. It may not be this Kinyon, it may be a clone of the Bull... Thanks for explaining the spring/pilot further. But, even the simplest, still isn't exactly crystal yet. Got to study this more.. Thanks again, Aj

You guys are bringing up good points. Simple as this hammer looks, there's a lot going on up top. A bunch of factors come in to play... When I get it running I'm going to move things around to test the performance. Thanks, Aj

Thanks Grant, you always seem to shine a little light in the gray areas. It makes good sense when you brake it down like that. AJ

A long while back Monstermetal made the comment that the cyl look larger than he thought it should be. I didn't really think to much of it at the time, but he was right. Also, Ron Kinyon mentioned to me that he was running an 8in long cyl on his hammer. That was two hints that just didn't sink in my thick head. An air hammer that uses a cylinder that travels a shorter distance uses less air too. I guess that's why I keep hearing that this style air hammer will run on a smaller compressor. The ram on my hammer has 11 inches of stroke. With the top of air cylinder mounted 4 inches back from the top bolt, the air cylinder only needs to push up a little less than 8 inches to move the ram 11 inches. I purchased a 12 in cylinder.. way to long. I just ordered one that's 9.5in long. That will still give about 3/4 of an inch on either side of the stroke.. Also, it will move the lower mounting boss up higher on the rear tube. Good thing I didn't weld it. Lucky for me the vendor took back the 12 cylinder. AJ

Another piece made. The bracket to hold the air cylinder to the spring is complete. I had a brain wave to put a couple of set screws on the top part of the bracket to help hold the little bracket on location. I don't know if it would slip on the spring after a good bit of use, but the set screws will help if it wants to slide. Tomorrow will be the day I'm going to stand it up on the base plate to get an over view of what I got. That will show me the correct spot to weld the lower air cylinder bracket to the main support tube. The air cylinder has to be located so there is no chance of it bottoming out in either direction. I should have about an inch to play with. Thanks, Aj

The length of my spring is about 21in center to center from the shackles to the middle of the tup. It a stout little guy.. Business is really slow for me and this project is running out of money. I've still have the air valves and controls left to purchase and really don't have the funds at this time. So a running completed hammer may be a little ways down the road. But, there still is a lot work I can do on it. thanks, Aj

Doc, Thanks for the input... I couldn't get it not to move in the little avi file. Autodesk Inventor allows the designer to move different parts of the drawing, but I can't really make it act the same as real life so to speak... You'd be surprised how close it is to ciladog's drawing. It's a challenge to understand the workings of your hammer and I'm only at the tip of the iceberg. Understanding is one thing, but building all the parts and tuning is.... well, a hell of a task. Take Care, Aj

Back on the project. The spring came in despite of all the bad weather. I whittled out the top of the ram so the spring would fit in and drill a 5/8 hole for the mounting bolt. Made the little block to hold the shackles and tack welded it in place to see how things are going to work out. So far so good. It all seem fairly straight forward at this point. I've been playing with the idea of the Bull controls. With a lot of help from Ciladog, he's kind of got me on track. Everything is simple once we get there. But for now it's the challenge that's got me working on them. And it aint real simple for me at this stage of the process. Attached a drawing and a ZIP file of a movie to show how the linkage would be arranged. It mimics the bull real close in movement so it should work if I can figure out all the rest. I'm still going to build the controls as the manual shows, (as Paul has them speced out). Bull controls are something that can be added after the hammer is up and going. Just something to study. They would be cool to have. I'd put a piece of plexiglass over the control box to show all the pieces, parts and work/time that goes into it. Later, AJ linkage 2.ZIP

WOW... what a shop you have. I'd say you're set up to do just about anything. Darn good looking web site too!! Can't get more professional looking than that. Who's the homely looking guy in all the shots?? AJ

That's a loaded question that everyone has an opinion on. According to Ron the designer, I believe, don't quote me on this... Seems like around a 5hp compressor is needed. Bare in mind I've never ran one, but I don't think I'll be running it for long periods of time wide open. I would think my compressor would keep up. That's what I have is a 5hp on a 120gal tank.. Sorry I don't have any hard data on this for you. Thanks, AJ

Looks like I'm at a stopping place. I've got to have the leaf spring for the top before I can go further. I'm told that will be another 3 - 4 days. I did have a brain wave, put the heavy plate on top of some tubing so I'll be able to move things in and out of the shop if need be. Just grab it with the forklift and go.. The anvil is just sitting on the plate. I'll weld that on last to get things lined up correctly. Aj

Mike, some of the attachments for this saw came from N.Y. An old boy had a bunch of extra pieces... I like your artwork on your picture... Thanks, AJ

Here's a shot showing the cable and pulleys for the automatic feed from the rear. Most any old saw that's in a shop is just about always wiped out, with the attachments broke and or missing. But with everything there and working, it's a weapon! AJ

Nope that's standard equipment for an old Doall Saw. My saw is a 1953 machine that I rebuilt a few years ago. I've bird-dogged about ever attachment that Doall made for it. Works like a champ! The chain goes down to a dead weight that pulls the material through the blade. It's adjustable along with the blade speed. Then all the operator has to do is steer it. That's 1.5 thick material, the blade is a 3/4 wide, 10tpi running at 150fpm. Speeds and Feeds... I buy blades off of e-bay at a deal, cut emm at the right length and then weld them together. Got to have the right blade for the metal alloy and thickness... Thanks, AJ

Yep, common since can save a guy lot of problems down the road. You know there isn't much you can keep your hands in for a while without it getting into your skin. That darn kroil, and tap magic come to mind. It doesn't just wash off... Below... making small pieces out of big ones. When the price is right... got to go with what you can get. Later, Aj

Thanks for the kind words! You know in the next couple of weeks, hopefully, we're going to get on the controls. (and I did say WE, you guys) That's a little confusing to say the least. I've been studying, but have only made a little progress. I want to try and draw the controls for the bull or the Coleman. "if I can draw it, I can make it"... Chime in Grant. :-)) Thanks again. AJ

You know just this past week I've had two different people tell me they saw a comparison on penetrating oils. Kroil has always been one of my favorites.. At the price of time it will get where it needs to go, and usually a touch of heat.... But a step better is suppose to be Acetone and ATF mixed 50/50. Suppose to be the best bar none.... Mix up a couple of gallons and pour it on... I've been wanting to mix some up, but haven't done it yet. Aj

There you go... I don't have a clue about what that looks like, or how big it is.. I'm going to do a search to find out. Aj

You know what's even worse... I probably shouldn't say... But you guys talk about all kind of hammers and I don't have a clue about what kind they are or what they look like. I've got a buddy that has a "tire" hammer he purchased from someone in Mississippi.. He turned it on and made a couple of strokes with it and that's all I've seen in person. I've been doing scroll work (basic stuff) for my business for several years and I'm having trouble with my arm from time to time. That's what has got me on the air hammer project. I whish you weren't so far away, I'd like to have you give it a try and have a couple of beers.... Come on down for Mardi-Gras... Thanks, Aj

After I received the info from Ron Kinyon I shortened up the bottom bracket for the air cylinder. I had to re-shape it somewhat because the bottom of the cylinder hit in the corner of the bracket. The one dimension I took off of the cylinder drawing was wrong. The bottom ears on the cylinder was a good bit shorter than what I had drawn and that caused problems. Assuming something is correct is the "mother of all screwups".... I got it worked out and still had a little time left in the day to make the two shackles that will hold the spring on top. Slow but sure, I'm pecking away at the project. Thanks, Aj

This is what the "master" Ron wrote back about the cylinder angle: Don't get hung up on the angle, I have 4 hammers running in my area for the last 5 years. The guide wear, UHMW has only been about .002-.003" per year. Keep the cylinder base next to the column so you have room to forge odd shaped pieces. I use a 8" stroke cylinder, the distance back from the head makes the head move 10.5" stroke. My hammer uses a 18" spring with the cylinder attached 4" back of the head center mount. The 8" cylinder stroke was used to cut down on air usage and still get a 10" stroke of the hammer head. I also use cylinders with the air cushion on the rod end. Use a PTFE lube on the head guides, spray can stuff works fine, lubricant not penetrate. The leaf spring does add some give in the system, and is a convenient method for pivots and mounting. The hammer is meant to be a SIMPLE AIR HAMMER which most smiths can build at home or in their shops with basic tools. Paul's plans are based on a build they did in Wisconsin, they made some mods, but nothing major. Nice to see the level of work you are doing, good job. Thank You Ron for taking time to comment on your hammer design. AJ