Jason @ MacTalis Ironworks

Very nice piece Sam. I like how your initials work into a design element too.

RR rail makes an OK anvil for light work. Mass under the hammer is what you generally look for so a block of steel works better than a bar---unless you set the bar vertically---some of the knifemakers are using vertical 4-6" Sq stock as anvils nowadays.

Why should you use new stock for strikers? Been smithing over 30 years now and I don't recall *anybody* ever using new stock for strikers---old files and hay rake tines seem to be favorites.

The reason alot of us bladesmiths are using blocks like that is because we don't have alot of use for an anvil horn or hardy hole. A small block like that lets us work either edge of a double edge blade with a minimum of effort. As in my other thread, I am considering building an anvil like that from a block of mild with a face welded to it. Should end up looking a bit like a sawyer's anvil when I am done.

And, RR track makes a fine anvil for an oddiment of jobs. My mother bought one for me at a garage sale a few months back after I told her to grab any anvil she saw if it were under $20 and call me if she found any that were more. I since gave it to my 11yr. old daughter after cleaning it up of course. Well, I find that it works a treat as an upsetting block if I put it on the floor of the shop. It annoys my kid cuz her shiny anvil gets dirty, but she puts up with it so I don't banish her from the shop.

No, they were cast iron, but had a steel plate top.

Odd... I'd have thought cast iron would be far too hard and brittle to make a quality anvil from. Was always under the belief that they were of a cast low carbon steel. Learn something new every day I guess... some day I should get to reading the anvil history books I have... my info on the subject is a little spotty in some places. :)

Face and edges look to be in pretty good shape. I'd take a body grinder to the face and work out the dings in the face and smooth off the nastier dings in the edges. Don't worry too much about the face being perfectly flat, as an anvil isn't a precision reference tool. Better for it to be a little wavy than to be transfering all them divots into your work. If you want to flat it up after that, I find 60 grit on a belt sander works well to smooth out the grinder marks.

Scheumack Broom Company of Eugene Oregon does very high quality broom binding. Website is http://www.broommagic.com/ I worked for him at a couple of Rennaisance faires 15 years or so ago, and got to know his product. VERY high quality.

Built in 22 would be a crapshoot, though more likely to have been steel as most of the wrought production had stopped by then.

Just so I`m clear on this.My post was not aimed at you Mac Talis, but at the rest of the long term members who constantly decry anyone but a certified welder who has been successful at it in the past even thinking about fixing an anvil.THOSE folks are the flail and dance crowd.
I just find it rather strange that they consider it blasphemy to think about trying to arc weld to save an anvil yet are eager to cheer someone on who has a less than 25% chance of success doing this in an average shop setting.Even if you work in a foundry and do this after work with the help of friends it`s an iffy thing at best.
There have been more than a couple of posts on IFI where a new face has been successfully arc welded onto an old "scrap" anvil and the anvil brought back into service.Some of those posts even documented the process.
To my knowledge there has only been one post here of a successfully hammer welded anvil and that took place at a large gathering using specialized gear with more than a few old hands working as a team and directly contributing to the work.
Never did hear the final verdict after heat treating or if it`s still in use.

If you`re doing something for fun then don`t let me rain on your parade.If you want a decent chance at a usable anvil when the smoke and steam clears then it`d be best to set the old ways aside and use available technology to your advantage.It`ll improve your chances of success by several orders of magnitude.
I just find it amazing that the same folks who scream "DON`T DO IT!!!" when you talk about arc welding an anvil which they have seen successfully done more than a dozen times here are more than happy to encourage a hammer welding exercise using that same anvil that they know will most probably end badly.

Average shop? Specialized equipment? Yes and no... blacksmiths made anvils for centuries before they started to make them in the more specialized shops. I am not looking to build a Peter Wright or Budden quality anvil. The method that I am proposing is actually a hybrid of modern tech and old school methods. I think most of those who oppose repairing an anvil with a welder, oppose the haphazard methods of doing it on anvils that really don't need repair. An anvil isn't a precision reference tool, it is a big block of steel to back your work while you hammer on it. It doesn't need to be perfectly flat and it doesn't need perfectly crisp edges. Take my primary anvil for example, it is a mid to late 1800's PW and it suffers from the typical edge chipping and sway belly. Well, I ground a small 3-4" section of the shoulder that was the crispest to roughly square again, cleaned the chipping up so I have random radii along the edges, I did cut 1/4" or so off the heel to square it back up, and it works great. I love having a little belly in an anvil, it makes straightening MUCH, MUCH easier. An anvil in this condition doesn't need welding to repair it, and is more likely to damage the integrity of the anvil than help it. Now, if it had a huge chip in the face, or a nasty pit somewhere in it, I'd be tempted to try filling it with weld, as even if it did end up soft or whatever, it would still be better than having to constantly avoid that annoying hole, and you could always reweld it if it failed. It is only the most extremely damaged anvils that Refacing should be considered, and I am well aware that some people have had good luck layering weld bead or perimiter welding a plate to the face. As I said, this is an experimental hybrid method that if successful, could make the task of refacing a relatively simple matter.

Similar thoughts here Thomas. The bragging rights of having build your own anvil would be a cool bonus. Like I mentioned, I think I might start off making a block anvil for double edging blades just to see if my theories are sound. The methodology is similar to the fluxless welding method used by J.W. Randal for welding his mosaic damascus cuts back together. The idea is to use a TiG torch to seal the seam of the join after creating a good mechanical fit. After that, the biggest problems are getting the heat, and of course being able to position the anvil safely so the face can be hammered. Forge welding is best done with light blows not with raining the weight of Thor's hammer down on the weld. I actually use a wooden mallet to pop my welds as it helps prevent me from striking too hard. Like I said, it is theory that I know for a fact works on small scale, and I am curious how well it translates to the large scale. My forge welding skills are at a level where 9 times out of 10, when I need a weld that doesn't need to be perfectly structural, I will reach for the flux before I reach for the MiG machine. I drop-tong weld on a regular basis, most of the time if I burn mild steel in the fire through my bad habit of talking or multitasking, I will forgeweld the pieces back together. I have managed to weld plugs into pipe, and have even managed fillet welds in the fire. Hence, I feel it is time for me to take it to the next level. I merely posted this here to share my enthusiasm for doing it the old way.

Point would be to eventually make an anvil using the old methods combined with some experimental ideas I have. I wouldn't even consider doing it with a servicable anvil. I am talking about refacing one of them old abused things with 1/2 the face busted off for the experimental aspect. Don't get me wrong, I have a VERY good idea what goes into refacing one by forgewelding. But on the same note, why would I ever forge weld when I can just pick up the MiG welder? I forge weld because I can and I am xxxx good at it. I rarely miss a weld on the first attempt. Surfacing an anvil with hardface electrode provides far from an ideal anvil face, though it makes for a decent spot repair. Also, I never dance and rant about someone repairing an anvil, it is your anvil, do what you want with it. I wouldn't consider refacing something with chipped edges or anything that minor, that would be stupid, grinding and spot welding are far more effective there. Forge welding a new face to an anvil is no minor undertaking, but you almost sound as if you are upset that anyone would even consider trying it. Additionally, if you are beating the bejeesus out of your forge welds, you are doing it wrong :)

Think I might start my experiments with a Mild steel base and a plate. I can use an anvil for making double edge blades easier. A rectangular anvil is kinda nice because you can hammer off either edge easily.

So a mint 400lb fisher is only worth $290 a metric ton? I would be intrested in a few 250lbers. Sorry Thomas
couldin't resist. Yeh I could buy a 55 T bird in 69. can ya buy one today for the same price? Son don't quote back in the day prices. I am 66 yrs old I know the then and now prices.
Sorry I get cranky after 10pm.

Unless I am mistaken, Fishers weren't cast iron. They were composite cast steel. VERY different animals there.

I was just gonna mention the dead and buzz rings, but you beat me to it Thomas. Keep in mind for future anvils though that ring isn't the end all be all determiner of quality/fitness. Alot of the cast and composite cast anvils will have little to no ring.

Thomas, I saw video of the SOFA refacing, but this was my first year there. Actually, I think you and I met there this year and chatted for a fair while. Like I said, it is just a dream of mine to make an anvil of considerable size eventually. And all this reading here lately got me to musing about it. I am an excellent forge welder, and have mastered popping some awfully tricky welds, it just seems logical to me that the first step in preparing to make an anvil would be refacing an old beat up one or 10... LOL

I wouldn't consider refacing an anvil that didn't need it. If I can get away with dressing one with a grinder, that is the route I travel. But if I stumble across one with a broken or severely dinged up face, I might just see if I can lay my hands on a nice plate of 1145 or something and give my theory a shot. Of course heat treating is another issue entirely, but I might be able to solve that one with a swimming pool on my roof... LOL.

I don't know why, but I have this urge/desire to reface an anvil. I don't have one that needs it but I just kinda feel like it is something I should be doing to push my forge welding abilities into the next level. I have a few thoughts on a method that might make it relatively simple. Not to imply that getting a mass of steel to that temperature safely is simple, rather the task of getting the weld to take with less hassle than I have seen guys have trying to reface them. I'm just rambling here really, but I think this to be something I need to do in preparation for making my own London Pattern anvil one of these days, which has been a long standing dream of mine. Someone slap me, do I really want to go through that much work?

Can't be sure from the pic, but it looks suspiciously like a Vulcan to me... LOL Decent composite cast anvil. I am in Thompson, OH Rob, just across town from you really. The local club up here almost always has a few anvils for sale here and there... drop me a line, I might be able to hook you up with someone looking to sell for reasonable prices.

Anvil faces vary tremendously in hardness. My Peter Wright would be hard pressed to get dented by any hammer I swing at it, while my buddy's PW (we think it was poorly refaced at sometime) dings as if it were made of lead. You might want to take a medium swing at it near the hardy hole with your hammer tipped a bit to see if it dings or just laughs at the hammer. If it dents easily, I highly recommend using a softer treated hammer on it at least until you have hammer control well in hand as it is WAY cheaper and easier to reface and replace cheap hammers than it is to resurface and anvil.

As does the term "MiG Welder" LOLz.

Didn't mean to imply BTW that it couldn't be used in a shop setting, just that I wouldn't really want to use it as a primary shop forge for any longer than absolutely necessary. They are however excellent portables for demoing at events.

I wouldn't consider these for a working forge in the shop as the pot is small, and you really can't get much done at a time, however, our club WRABA uses them for demos at art shows and the like all the time. They work just fine if you are just puttering about, making noise on your anvil to draw a crowd.

When I think hand-forged, I think heating the steel and working it into shape using your eye and hands to bring it to shape using whatever tools you may. When I think Machine forged, I think processes like drop forging or stamp forging where you have a die that does all the work for you and you are merely putting the piece into the machine and it does all of the shaping for you.

Looks like about 20-30 minutes of work and $20-$30 price tag by my standards. But, that is just a guess. Nice work, and here is a thought for you. Perfectly even twists aren't an asset, they are a liability. Machines make perfect twists, blacksmiths don't. It is more important that it be asthetically pleasing to the eye than be perfectly even. Every last one of my twists are a bit uneven not because I can't get them even if I take the time with it, but because it is those imperfections, like hammermarks, that tell that it is a hand forged piece. If you want perfect, buy from China, their machines do it the same everytime.

If it rings loud ****** like a churchbell, it is likely a trenton. :)

My nail header is made from a random leaf-spring hunk cut to a paddle shape, and domed with a big ball bearing in a swage. No hardening, just normalize it. Has prolly had about 5000 nails or so made with it with no sign of deformation at all as of yet.

Offhand, whatever I have laying around, though as a rule of thumb, I don't like to use anything hardenable as quenching it can cause it to harden and become brittle. Though it is rare that I ever let my tongs get anywhere near their crit temp...