youngdylan
Members
-
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by youngdylan
-
-
-
As I am not as experienced as some on this site, I wont make a recommendation, but I will make an observation. If a radius edge is desired by so many why don't anvil makers include it in the manufacturing process, especially if it's for the benefit of the anvil.
Cheers
Ian
I kinda assume its so the users can add ther preferred radii in there preferred postions. If the manufactures "over radiused" them to start with, there's nowt you can do. If they "under radiused" (i.e. none) them you can always add more of a radius. It's the same with some hand hammers I've bought in the past -
Youngdylan, I understand what your saying. Just so you know. I do this for fun. Not to make a living. Not yet at least. Almost every time I tell someone I blacksmith as a hobby they ask if I can make something for them and how much would it cost. I tell them, let be get better and I'll get back to you. So, you never know. It may just turn into a work environment. But in the mean time I'm gonna have fun with it. After saying that you may wonder why am I spending so much money on a brand new anvil. I believe in having good quality tools. I usually only buy them once or twice in a lifetime when I do that. That, and anvils are almost impossible to find in Alaska. People just don't let go of them.
Bryan, I hear what you're saying, sounds good to me. I'm sure a lot of smiths have gone from a passionate hobby to a "profession". I did. Amongst many things I used to be a school teacher. Passionately HATED it. Was very lucky to have a hobby that seemed a go-er re earning a living and I could use to escape from the mediocrity - browness of staff rooms.
Great thing about doing it for a living is suddenly those wonderful professional toys tools we all drool over in the catalogues when its a hobby suddenly don’t look so expensive. After off setting them against tax as an expense and claiming back the VAT they're effectively around half price. Also top end professional reliable kit becomes a must when we look at the time they save. Sometimes they are the only tools for a job; File a crisp square hole through 75mm steel versus using a slotter anybody?
Down side is the long hours and getting the balance right between doing interesting work you are still passionate about and taking on drudge just to make sure you don't drown in overheads.
I'm kinda in good place at the moment, had a run of interesting work that involves a lot of planning, logistics, problem solving, tooling up etc. It's often the front end of the job that’s the best part. I.e. evolving the design with the customer, sourcing the materials, researching new processes (latest being electropolishing stainless; it’s something else), jigging up and prototyping. Making the first few widgets is usually fun but after a few hundred Zen becomes important!
So endeth lecture #2
-
-
Files, I like files a lot. They are powered by your muscle not some electrical motor that you are not in 100% control of. You control how much you take off not some demented machine. Use the FILE!
no use the GRINDER
just make sure your using a flexible disc not a hard bouncy uncontrollable one.
Actually, its not really important if you use a file or a grinder in this case. But if you're earning a living its whole different ball game. TIME IS MONEY and as long as the quality control is there is all about getting the job done the most efficiently (to me). I've 9 different angle grinders, both air and electric. Each one is dedicated to a particular disc, wire wheel etc etc. I can always quickly pick up the appropriate grinder without fannying around looking for the right spanner disc etc etc. Same applies to dynabrade pneumatic belt files. Absolutely wonderful wonderful wonderful tools. They can do certain jobs that no file can ever do One example is dressing up the inside of small domed curve, see attached picture. Kinda obsessed by them them. Got 6 upto now with various arms and always scanning ebay for more.
That said, I do appreciate the aesthetics of a filed finish compared to an "angle ground" one. There ARE certain jobs where only a filed and hand sanded finish will do ... they do take a lot longer though. In my jewellery making days I didn't have any grinders at all.
PS Bentiron, I hope I'm not stirring up a hornets nest (file v grind, electric v forge weld etc etc), it's just the way I earn my living.
-
Yeah, I guess that's the best approach. Give it a minimum radius of say around 2-3mm on most commonly used edges (or even a 45 degree chamfer). This should stop it getting too badly damaged by the inevitable stray blow. You can always increase the radius near the horn to suit later. Given that this is such a small radius, I woundn't worry to much if its a bunch of facets. This is blacksmithing, not aero engineering
Kinda think it may be a bit too hard to file easily. Light and careful use of a sanding disc in a smaller angle grinder should do the job. Use both handS (one on the side handle) for best control. Stroke and feather the grinder in overlapping runs rather than pressing it on on and pull/pushing it. Maybe start with 60 grit and finish with 180 grit. Most importantly, if your unsure, practice on pieces of angle iron held in a vice. Personnally I wouldn't be too bothered about stoning it to a finish. Bearing mind my rant about it being a working tool it'll soon loose that finish.
Enjoy! -
one of the bad things about my workshop is its in Stockport ... the word dump doesn't even begin to describe it. One of the good things about my workshop is its in Stockport, which is about 5 miles away from John N at Massey. At the risk of being awarded an O.B.N. I've gotta say this place is THE place for all stuff to do power hammers and industrial forging in the UK and John KNOWS hammers.
As an aside, about 4 years ago I bought a 40kg Anyang from John. I didn't know John then and was a bit worried about the "Chineseness" of the hammer. The fact that it had the Massey name behind it convinced me to buy one. I've loved it from the day I got it. Absolutely NO problems with it, very compact, very powerful and very controllable. After sales service from John re different dies etc is second to none ..... can I have my tenner now John? -
There are also springs inside the cylinders to prevent crashing.
Even when they were working, the air cushions in the cylinder weren't really up to the job. Plus which, I did way too much working cold steel (yeah i know, naughty boy me) and the shock waves must have travelled through the rods because the plastic sleeves that are part of the cushioning mechanism inside the cylinders eventually shattered.
I'm also expecting the cylinder rods to shear sooner or later where they neck down from 20mm dia to an M16 thread. This seems to be the Archilles heal of Kinyon base designs, happened a few time on my conventional Kinyon. I kinda regard the cylinders as consumables. That said I'm thinking of making a bespoke rod with no shouldering down; 20mm rod with an M20 thread on the end
I think I'll get some holes bored onto the base (130mm thick slab) that the springs can sit in. Allows longer springs/ cylinders to be used. -
Can you give me a link to information on the valve you are using, please? The ARO oscillator valve I tried was $300.00+!
Grant
I hope this is of use
http://www.azpneumatica.com/azweb/ita/genimp.htm
Sorry it's in Italian but I'm sure it gives you the gist of things.
-
I absolutely 100% categorically agree with jake p. The best analogy I can think of it a very sharp pencil, the tip nearly always breaks off when the slightest pressure is applied. A sharp 90 degree corner in hardened steel will behave similarly. Its all very predictable and tied in with basic material properties, metallurgy, mechanics physics etc etc .... go on, sharpen a pencil and suck it and see. An anvil is a working tool that is meant to be pounded on. If it's a hobbiest toy that you want to keep all shiney pristine and new and every once in a while take out to look at and polish then admire and feel all ye olde worlde blacksmithe by all means keep the edges sharp. If one the other hand you're going to use it as working tool to earn a living with let rip on it. A few hundred quid spread over a few years is relatively minor compared to other workshop expenses such as rent etc. Dress the edges at jake suggests and youll have a variety of usable predictable radii for an awfully long time, as opposed to an anvil with all sort of ad hoc dings dents cracks etc on the edges. Its not a toy (or worse something wasting away in a collection) it's a tool, treat is with the utmost respect but use it as its made to be used. How often is good engineering practice to make anything remotely stressed with a sharp internal corner? so why do you need to forge one?Sorry,but must EMPHATICALLY disagree with Glenn,and all others advocating procrastination in regards to chamfering. Metal,hard as the face is,is extremely brittle where it meets the corner.A medium-strengh blow with a 1-lb hammer is guaranteed to chip it.One does have an accidental blow fall,every once in a while,and the edges do spall,and have to be ground out later anyway,but in a random pattern. I also disagree with the chamfer increasing toward the hardy and the tail.Next to the horn is where the hardest work is done,and the radius should be largest there,3/8" or so.Toward the unsupported counter it can decrease to almost sharp,to true-up some inside corners,perhaps,but that work is done gently. Anyone that has ever pounded a stake onto the ground would understand all the mechanics involved.And no one is safe from an occasional wild blow,so... As to the gentleman bladesmithing on an undressed anvil,well,i suppose that you do light work,and that you do it gingerly,not much mass in a blade...Technically,the proportion is(supposed to be)1/10.mass of sledge/mass of anvil.I've exceeded that on occasion,had to.And a heavy sledge blow anywhere close to the edge will spall it,for sure,physics,you see...(Temperatures matter,as well). Sorry,but i do hold these views categorically. -
- if it looks useful, buy it and find out what it'll do.
...whilst the verbiage is upon me, another example is I saw a brand new Dessoutter pneumatic tapper on ebay. It was mistakenly desribed as a "air drill". I got it for about £20. I'd no need of it at the time but it bought because to me Desoutter are the dogs danglers of air tools. It sat on shelf for a year...... but as I write ..... I'm mid way through a job that involves tapping 400 M6 holes through 8mm steel plate. EVERYTIME I squeeze the trigger I give my self a mental pat on the back for getting it when I did. Really is a swwwwwweeeeet tool.
Grant, sorry about highjacking this thread, it's friction screw presses all the way from now. -
Some materials like aluminum cannot be torch cut due to the oxides that are formed. Aluminum oxide melts at a higher temp than the torch puts out. As for stainless, probably a similar occurrence due to the low amount of iron, and high amounts of chromium, etc.
Steel is actually burned in oxy/acet process, not melted like with a plasma cutter. Very large chunks are cut with an oxygen lance. The steel is heated then a separate lance is used to feed pure oxygen into the cut to keep it burning.
Yo BigGun
yeah kinda makes sense. From my (very) limited metallurgy knowledge, most things that are special about stainless come from the chromium oxide layer on the surface. -
-
Brad
The devices are relatively expensive compared to decent flow rated main valves;
....oops (a word I use all too often). Just re read this post and where it says expensive it should say inexpensive. Silly me.
I got mine new from e bay for about a tenner but a quick look in the RS cataloque shows similar devices for around the £50 mark. 1/8 th port Norgren pilots are a lot more! -
Can you give me a link to information on the valve you are using, please? The ARO oscillator valve I tried was $300.00+!
A good cushion cylinder would probably have to be built custom. I'd probably use a top head with the "air in" as a center hole such that an extension of the rod could plug it and trap the needed cushion air. They make cylinders like that, but not with enough cushion for a hammer.
My valve came from ebay. I'm out of the workshop now but I'll get the info I can from it later. It think its an SMC but I'm bound to be wrong.
Do you guys have RS over there. Here's a link to something that sounds similar.
http://uk.rs-online....ductNum=0725024
Looks a bit different to mine physically but seems to have the same function.
RE the rebound cushioning. It is the weak part of the design. My Kinyon was originally just conventionally plumbed but more by luck than judgement, the rebound spring I used seems suitably rated for the one shot mode.. a section of a motorcycle suspension spring.
My KA75ish is a different beastie, its is probably soemwhere around a KA50kg, but that's a whole nother thread on using the right rebound spring/ weight of tup/ available stroke. When autocycling it tops out on the top of the stroke if I let rip with it. The whole hammer can almost jump in the air (I've kinda "gas flowed" it in that I've bored out the exhaust ports on the cylinders and used the fattest/ shortest main plumbing I can). Pretty impressive given that anvil/base is getting on for 500kg. I had to increase the tup weight to slow it down, hence the strange composite design to the tup . Really am no expert on this stuff at all but I kinda think for my use I'd rather have a lighter tup run slightly faster. 1/2 m v squared and all that. As Grant says the built in cushioning in the cylinders ain't up to the job and the springs I used are too weak/short. They're sort of truck valve spring sized. Thing is my time to tinker/play is constrained by the need to use the workshop to pay the mortgage/ earn money to buy the toys to play with, so I've had to live with the springs first used.
Grant, when I built the KA75ish I looked at your design and more or less copied it (except both cylinders doing the up/down stuff). Why have you (and hence me) used two springs for the cushioning? I'm kinda wondering if I used just one for the up stroke rebound, I could have more space either use a longer beefier spring or be able to squeeze in longer stroke cylinders.
I'll try and sketch a diagram of the one shot circuit later. Why is there only 24 hours in a day?.
PS what I love about the KA school of thought is that all the mass is where its needed under the hammer blow. I wish people would wake up to the fact that the weight of a hammer frame thats not part of the anvil adds very little to the effectiveness of the blow. (makes it more stable re bouncing around the workshop though). It has made me giggle in the past with "Striker" devotees claiming it's a better hammer than Anyangs because the frame weighs more. Also really makes me snigger when people claim that "Striker" is an American and therefore better hammer than Anyang. Don't they realise they're both made in China (and there's nowt wrong quality wise with that if the quality control is there). Do they really think because the name "Striker"sounds less chinese than "Anyang" its a better hammer.
...oops, verbiage alert.
-
-
Hey Everyone,
I am trying to figure out the best way to forge some brass knuckles for a motorcycle accessory.
1) Cut a rough cut out of 1/4 or 3/8 plate with the oxy/acetylene torch and forge down from there.
Bob
plasma/laser/water cutting maybe, I'm none to sure brass will oxy fuel cut. It needs the carbon in STEEL to burn to generate the heat, the fuel gas just provides the initial preheat. The heat from BURNING the carbon in the steel more or less makes the process self sustaining. Metals with no carbon won't burn too well; life would be so much easier if stainless would oxy fuel cut. You might be able to MELT a path through brasss, wont be too pretty though.
Hey, why something so agressive. Nice flower or fluffy cloud or cute pussy perhaps! -
Yeah, the conversion of effort expended to work produced is quite amazing, really.
Sure is! I also find the feel given when feathering a "blow" is so useful. Some other good uses are "rolling" rings, helixes even. I'll try and dig out a photo of useful jig I made for this pre getting some rollers. Another good use is raising bowls, vesssels etc. ..... yeah, you heard that right; raising .... raising, where the metal is shrunk and thickened. No, not sinking where it thins the metal. In essence I use a ball ended tool to force the metal into a shallow bowl swage ....no ....we're still not talking sinking here. The trick is to let the metal crease up as it's forced into the bowl. then go over the creases with the ball to press out the creases whilst the metal is constained by the bowl ..... voila! raising, raising as with a hammer and T stake but on a flypress with much less effort using much heavier section steel. Hell, your elbows sure will thank you one day.
bowls flypressed from 6mm plate
-
I'm with you 100% there - if it looks useful, buy it and find out what it'll do. I'll buy anything that looks like it'll push, pull, squeeze or pound.
Yeah, when you need "it" in a hurry, you'll probably pay a lot more for said "it", if indeed you can find "it" in time to complete the job said "it" is needed for, elsewise you'll end end doing the job a lot slower and really wish you'd the foresight to realise how cheap "it" was at the time. Always assuming you've the space to store it. Me? sadly I've not a square mm going spare anymore.
Couple of case in points. Recently picked up a beast of a Ward-Forsyth 30Tonne electro-hydraulic C framed press, 300mm of stroke, something like 350mm from centre of ram to frame ..... wait for it ..... £300 of Ebay!!!!!!! Come the time I use it in anger it'll pay for itself in a couple of hours.
Other is example is; I'd always got by with a home brewed Kinyon when about 4 years ago John N started selling 40kg (88lb in scroats, furlongs, widgets and bushells) Anyangs for £3000. To me that just seemed stupidly cheap given the amount of metal it could move in a day. Bought it, love it, would buy another (maybe one of his 15kg or 75kg's) if I had the space. The 40kg's now sell for £5800. To my way of thinking, that is still value for money when the cost is spread over a few years, and the potential work that can be done by one over those years is considered.
Whilst I'm rambling about the money side, I kinda think it's very revealing that this forum has 100's and 100's of thread about hammers, anvils, hand cranked blowers, ye olde worlde offeth blacksmithes, etc etc etc etc. It's got 6 topics on the business side of blacksmithing. Yeah I know, loads of you guys and gals are hobbiests ..... creative, passionate and dedicated at that, but come on, 6 topics for ****s sake !!!!! Business isn't a dirty word. If you don't understand the business side of your business, chances are you wont earn enough money to buy those wonderful toys we also so covet. An induction heater in my case, they look like money printing machines to me.
So endeth the lecture for today. -
Actually my 3B Nazel took three blows to do that Grant..had to run the test...
Grant can I ask a favor?
What does your press do to 8" of 1.5" round mild steel in one heat? Simply downward pressure with no interest in controlling the spread..all natural.
My 3B Nazel can flatten it to about 1/4" plate 4" wide in the center in 40 blows .... so about 10-12 seconds from a high heat.
I do not have access to a friction press, but would not mind one if it can do the work....to know that I need some tests run to see how large a press I should be looking for.
Ric
Ric
I've a couple of manual flypresses (Norton #5 and #6) and it constantly impresses me what I can do with them. When I move out of my matchbox of a workshop and if I ever find a "moderately" sized friction screw press in the UK I'd buy it on principle, something about the way they work does it for me. Also I like the fact they dont need swimming pool sized blocks of concrete for foundations (I think). I've bought a few tools/machines in the past without an immediate use, but when I did find a use they've paid for them selves many time over.
As an aside, I dont know if you guys have "bar flypresses" over there. See photo of my #5. It's got no base as such, just a hole in the body that you can push a stout bar through (75 x 75mm for mine). It's incredibly useful when working on hoops or other shapes when the base gets in the way.
-
I tried similar system for a pneumatic treadle hammer. A rotary optical encoder in the foot peddle sensed the velocity of the foot peddle and a plc controlled a pneumatic proportional valve which controlled the blow of the hammer. The plc converted the input from the encoder to a voltage (0-10v for my proportional valve). This system did not work as I wanted and I have since abandoned this idea.
brad
Brad
Thanks for the input. I've also thought about going down the electrical control route but like the simplicity of the pneumatic pulse generator. The blow given is NOT in anyway controlled by the strength of the hit to the treadle (throttle) other than the treadle behaves as an on off switch that signals the pulse generator to send a short duration pilot signal to the main valve. The length of this pulse is independant of the time and strength of the hit to the treadle. At the start of the pulse, the main valve then switches over so that the tup is forced down for a short duration (dead blow) and when the pulse is "over" it switches over again and returns the tup to the top of it's stroke. The strength of the blow is "dialled in" before hand by the preset length of the pulse (fractions of seconds) or the supply air pressure.
As Grant pointed out (I think), the weakness of the design is that the tup returns to the top of it's stroke at full force if the treadle is still depressed when the pulse is over. The advantage of the design is that the blow is a dead one, no half blows, bouncy or double blows, and the blow strength is always exactly repeatable (as long as the workpiece it hits is a similar height).
The devices are relatively expensive compared to decent flow rated main valves; they probably cost about the same as a good quality roller lever operated pilot valve. NOTE, THEY ARE NOT TIME DELAY VALVES. They are only two port devices so there's a minimum of extra inexpensive pilot plumbing. However, t I haven't fully worked out the best system re the rebound bit. I can see mileage in it as a pneumatic oliver - powerhammer and am hoping for input from the many people more experienced than me. John Larson, you about anywhere?
Diagrams speak a thousand words so I'll do later. -
Hi John
Thanks for the compliment re the hammers. The single blow circuit is probably more simple than I've made it sound and the the plumbing around the top of the hammer makes it look like something out of an Alien movie. There's probably way too much going on up there; tapping for blow off gun, warning light to tell me when there is pressure in the cylinders, clamping switch, single/repeat blow switch, a switchable balancing circuit/ regulator (and a very usecful arrangement to progressively switch it out as the treadle is pressed, will try to start a new thread about this) ..... could really do with some KISS treatment. Actually, of all the features, it's the clamp I find I use the least.
Grant, I'll try to run through the single shot gubbins in more detail this evening. Guess pictures and diagrams are in order, I do have a tendancy to excess verbiage! Have thought (and will probably continue to do so) about electrical control/ solenoid valves but it means both an air and an electric connection ... more to go wrong. -
Hi Monster
I've just recently started a thread that may relate to this thread, basically using a pneumatic pulse valve (called something like that anyhow) that allows a Kinyon air hammer to give single controllable repeatable blows. Kinda like an adjustable treadle hammer ... may be of interest to you? -
Hi All
I'm starting to play around with a pneumatic impulse generator (monostable???) to get a repeatable single blow from my Kinyon and KA75ish hammers.
Basically it gives a presettable air pulse from milliseconds to seconds in length. I use a 3 way tap to swith it into the pilot circuit. It's in series with a second pilot valve that only triggers when the treadle is fully depressed (therefore throttle fully open).
It means I stomp on the treadle, the pilot gives a controllable length air pulse and tup will return to top after the blow even with foot still on treadle. Whilst it would be useful to have a blow proportional to the strength of hitting the treadle, it's also useful when doing "stamped" designs to have a constant repeatable strength blow that doesn't rely on trying to control the hit to the treadle.
Still experimenting but looking promising.
Thoughts anyone? Grant?
My name is Larry, and I am a tool junkie
in Tools, general discussion
My name is david and I,m also a tool addict.
That table is sex in metal.
Probably a silly thing to ask but it's not for sale is it and would it be at all economic to ship it to the uk. If not anyone got any idea where you can get something similar in the UK? pockets or not