Chris Waldon Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 In the near future I plan to forge a dagger. Since I am of a very low experience level, I would like any and every tip and/or bit of input you can offer. I was thinking of making a leaf blade but I'm not entirely sure on that as it may be quite difficult to forge. (once again I would like your input on that) I'm going to be using a unknown steel lawnmower blade steel for it. (I have used similar lawnmower blades and found that they can hold an edge, even without tempering) My main questions: How do you recommend that I attach a cross-guard? What sort of tang would you recommend? Is this project to ambitious for a smith of my (6 month) experience? I would also love to see pictures of similar work if you have any, I haven't designed the blade yet and inspiration is a good thing! =) Thanks in advance, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Chris, if you will review a few of the discussions here about beginning bladesmithing and Rich Hales remarks in "impossible to sharpen knife.", you will quickly understand that no one would recommend what you describe as a first project. There are many things to learn about knife making that have nothing to do with forging. For the beginner knife maker, and I count my self as one, forging the blade is less than half the job. I suggest that you collect and read books about knives and knife making before you make plans to to forge a knife. While you are doing that forge a few hundred leaves and put together some flowers. Do this so that, when you are ready to forge a design from the thousands you have looked at, your hammer will make the shape you want from the knife steel you bought. As for pictures, almost every thread in this section has pictures of knives that anyone would be proud to own and information on how they were made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 You've kinda got me wrong here Charlotte. This isn't my first KINFE, this is my first dagger. I've made a good nine or ten "Knives", Just nothing with two edges before. I don't have the materials or tools necessary to make leaves, and I'm not entirely sure about how to construct a flower. Thank you though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I apologize Chris. Your Inital presentation lead me to think that you were just begining to work. As for forging an two edged knife and an leaf there is actually a lot of similarity. It is all in hammer control. Most leaf designs are symetrical around a center line. If I were going to forge an unfamiliar shape I would try working it out with modling clay using the hammer I planned on using and the other tools as well. Then I would work it out with a36 to get a practice run. As for hilt I kind of like some of the boot knives that have been show here. Try searching here with dagger. This link is to a one that I very much admire: http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f14/w1-dagger-antler-spacer-4528/ BTW. You will have an easier time of it if you use 1095, 1084 or W1 as mentioned in the link as a starting material. Forging and heat treating unknown steel is a lot of effort that may or may not result in a satisfing knife. 1/4 X 1" X 36" 1095 carbon steel from Admiral steel is only 12 bucks +shipping Link >> Admiral Steel - Knife & Sword Blade Steels I feel more confident in my gift when I know the quality of the material it is made of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) Thank you Charlotte. I'm sorry my original post was so misleading. I agree with you on that one dagger link you posted, that was a phenomenal hilt/pommel/grip/guard/whateveryouwanttocallit. I'm actually now considering using a file that I have. (picture below) I drew a blueprint of the file and I'm still working out the style and length of the blade. (currently, I'm still favoring the leaf design, the hard part will be the symmetry) I know I need to anneal it and grind off the "teeth" before I can forge it (and maybe cut off the existing tang as well???) but I'm not sure about how to form the tang of a dagger. (not the kind where you rivet/pin wood scales on, the slide up the tang kind) Do you make it a gradual taper towards the end of the tang? (and then slide everything up the tang) How exactly does the pommel hold everything on? How would you go about ensuring the knife is balanced? Sorry for piling so much on here, but all the threads I seem to find are written by people who already know how to do this and skip over this particular process for the most part. Thank you in advance and I apologize profusely for the confusion Charlotte. Edited July 8, 2009 by Chris Waldon Picture didn't attach the first time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Chris, we reeeealy need to get together. I don't have a lot of knowledge, and I have very little about forging leaf blades. But maybe we could show each other a couple of things. I think I could help with the tang constrution if we put together a time to meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 There are a couple of different ways to do a hidden tang including drawing the tang out far enough that you can thread the end and screw the pommel on or drill and counter sink the end. Many people make the tang tapered and slide the guard and bolsters down and then epoxy the handle on. These are all decisions that are part of the artistic and technical judgements a knife maker makes. Steve Sells is the moderator of this forum and can point you in the direction of posts and books on this kind of judgement. Here is a link to a post that links to how hidden tangs are done.http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f14/neat-hidden-tang-link-12252/ At lot depends on exactyly what you have in the way of equipment. I would leave the tang of the file on until it gets in the way. My thought is that it is a lot easier to cut of than add on. I file most but not all the file teeth off knifes I make from files. Some times I leave sections on so that it tells folks that it was made from a file. Often going in and out of the fire will remove the rest of it. That is nice big file so you may be able to get two pieces out of it depending on the size you are looking to make. I would think a dagger and a nice size drop point hunter would be possible if that file is like 15 inches long as it appears to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 The full file, including the existing tang, is only 12.5 inches long and 1 inch wide at its base. I was planning on removing the existing tang because my forge is relatively small and I don't think I could heat the entire length of the file with it. (for annealing, ect...) Thanks though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 By the by, How exactly do you ensure that a blade is balanced while forging it? (or does that come after the forging process is complete?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Balanced? Blades may be balanced in several different respects for different tasks. If you mean that it feels good in the hand, light and mobile in use? That is done primarly by remembering that most good knives taper gradualy toward the guard from the tip and the butt. A blade that doesn't taper well feels heavy in the hand. It is mostly subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 here's another design I might consider for it. I like the angular look, I'm just not sure how much material I'll have to remove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Reminds me of a star destroyer on Star Wars. I kinda like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 OOO, I hadn't seen that before, but It's very true! The part that worries me is making it perfectly symmetrical. I'm also not entirely sure how to make the cutting edge curve towards the corners of the blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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