Strine

Disclaimer
I write in a willy-nilly fashion, using all manner of bad language and inappropriate phrasiology. After all my thoughts are on the screen I refine and rehash the text so it's presentable on this site. If in the event I press the wrong button below i.e. submit or preview, in a moment of lowered concentration I apologise but take no resposibility. If there is no edit facility you have to take it as it comes.


Obviously I can not see what all the fuss was over Alan since Alans posts are gone. Suffice to say there appears to have been quite a bit of fuss. But I'm seeing things slightly differently, maybe as a result of too many attempts at criptic crosswords. Two things are troubling me

Glenn: Alan has deleted his posting and contributions to the IForgeIron site without IForgeIron permission or knowledge

Shurely it is Alans rite to deleet his postings and contributions when and when he wishes and for wotever reeson. To that end I am asking how much of our posting are ours or, once they are posted, do they become yours (admin's) and we have no rights to our once, own intellectual property. An explaination would be much appreciated.

Andrew: Also, as regards to an earlier post: yes, editing had been purposely turned off for a reason. Do not question the admin's again.

I'm struggling to dispel notions about what this could possibly mean.

Also, I have been here for sometime and lost contact with the rule book. Lately I have just relied on common sense and decency to get by. Is it possible to be directed to the rule book so I can refresh my memory. I apologise if it's staring me in the face and I'm too blind to see it.

Andrew: When a user is banned, there is no going back.

This is the internet...the world wide web. I think all you have done is banned the name "Alan DuBoff"

Pretty harsh though. A life sentence, and in the season we celebrate good will to all. Still, I'm not privvy to the actual offence.

Merry Christmas to all and I hope the New Year treats you well.

Pressing the submit button............now

I s'pose you're trying to reacreate the forces applied to material being fed through a roller to make a circle. In that setup the metal is fed evenly through the machine and the hammer, i.e. the top roller hits, i.e. makes contact with the metal and thus the anvil, i.e. bottom rollers at infintesimly small increments along the metal. The top roller is offset from the bottom roller as the hammer is to the anvil hence it curls up to make a circle. But our problem is we usually don't want a circle we want a spiral or an ever increasing radius.
So we have to feed our metal over the anvil at increasing increments and hit with increasing force to overcome the generally tapered end of the piece. The maths would be bad enough for a circle but horrendous for a spiral (scroll) which brings us back to... doh a dear, no that's wrong it brings us back to practise practise practise. But once you've mastered it's easy...like everything else.

Yeh Dinny, true. But we let them have the urn for a little while and they got all cocky. So it's payback time


And the same to you and yours for the season

On the scrolls Oljoe, jigs and tooling are fine. I think they use them a lot in China but the crunch will come when you have to make the scrolling jig. Darn it, it's a scroll :confused:

Scrolling a length of bar for me is a matter of feeding the end of the suitably shaped bar...fish tail, taper, point... over the far edge of the anvil and hitting it with hammer in a continual feed continual hit manner. The amount of hit and the amount sticking over the edge very much depends on, well, just about everything. Practice will get you there in the end. Once you can make the jig perfectly (the shape of the scroll will take on the shape of the jig) seems to me you wont need the jig .

With the penny, treat the end of the skinny part as the 'end' of the bar not the penny. This means your first tool will be something to replace the far edge of the anvil with something to get into the tight spot....sort of a well curved over hardy that comes to a reasonably fine edge.

That's how I'd do it anyway

Australia, You Bloody Bewdy. Don't worry folks I'm just quoting the Arch Deacon of Perth, Western Australia after the Australian Eleven re took the Ashes from England a little while ago. And comisserations to the Poms

The what? you ask. Google it:). When it comes to trophies there can be none smaller or insignificant in physical nature...it is maybe 100mm tall if it's up on tippy toes. But boy, it's significance in a contest bewteen the 'Old Dart' and the Antipodes is huge.

Well done R. Ponting and the boys.

Waaaaaaarnnnneeeeeeee...get of the mobile and send down some curly ones.

Originally Posted by oljoe
Tell me what you think.

I begin here with the greatest trepidation; I want to start a revolution. A recent thread asking for ideas for 2007 discussed a critique section of the forum at my instigation. The idea of a new section was pooh-hoo-ed by Admin in favour of using the current forums to give honest constructive criticism rather than the all to common patronising, pats on the back remarks.

I'm taking Admin up on this suggestion with the following.

In my opinion oljoe's sign falls well short of displaying competent use of forging skill. I understand it is is a "first blacksmithing project" and so the above remark is probably expected. A number of areas I feel need looking at.

1. I think the layout would look better if the bottom area was slightly taller than the top. Having the areas equal in height makes the Foster appear to sit lower (and therefor lower in significance in the overall design). Golden ratios might be worth considering here.

2. I think it would look better with heavier stuff. The material used seems a little flimsy for the size of the project.

3. Your scrolls must appease your eye in the first instance as must mine. I like a reverse scroll to not have a straight section between the two end elements. I also prefer, or rather insist that all lines within a scroll element flow in a contiuous line. There is considerable disjointedness (if that's not a word it is now) as your eye follows the lines of the scrolls to the penny. Which reminds me, pennies are round.

4. The Foster round bit should also be round. It's the smooth lines thing again.

5. I'm not sure where you live but either the telegraph poles are crooked or the sign is. I'm not sure either whether this criticism is applicable in a blacksmithing sense. I suppose it is if you include installation in the whole process. Of course there is camera distortion I can't account for which might be throwing my view point all out of kilter

6. All things considered, for a first effort it is a reasonable attempt at 'true blacksmithing albeit perhaps a little adventurous. But who am I to judge? Perhaps a bit of practice with penny scrolls would do wonders for the overall look of the sign.

Please accept these comments in the spirit they were given ie in helping a fellow smith who is at where we've all been at at some stage.

Oh btw Foster has an S on the end but I much prefer Victoria Bitter.;)

No worries Hofi, apology accepted graciously.

I'm sorry Alan, I will do all in my power to keep the thread alive. I was offended and had to speak up. Scott, you put it beautifully. You say you are a teacher of blacksmithing. It seems to me from your last post you are a very good one. Keep up the good work.

Alan, on a general note, you knocked up some sort of object recently which by all accounts did not meet the desired specifications. By jingoes (ie aghast and alas) who hasn't had that happen before. But there is no mistaking the fact everytime you hit the metal something happened. I mean everytime. Not occasionally does the metal change shape. It changes shape everytime. As you have found out sometimes the result is wrong. That's unfortunate but what you have just done with any single swing of the hammer is discover exactly the right technique for a project swimming around in your head, waiting to be realeased. Don't quote me but I think it was JPH who said here "Experience is what you get when you didn't want to get it" You can never get too much experience.

No blueprint from me Glenn. The language barrier aside I note the chastisement from the previous post. I am truly sorry I made an offering in trying to give Alan another option and will not make the same mistake again.

Additionally I will not be badgered into adopting new methods if the one I use works just fine and will not be lectured to about my willingness or capacity, or lack thereof, to learn. Nothing prevents me from learning exept the number of brain cells I lose each day. I will consider expert advice along with all the other expert advice I get as I'm sure Alan is doing.

Strike me pink, we are talking about tapering a bit of stuff. Get off the grass.

I say again. Each to his own. And again. Each to his own. And again... no, that would be boring. My 'own' is very flexible and if it starts to look like your 'own' stick your chest out and polish your fingernails.

For the uninitiated the term "Each to his own" merely says that we are all different. Thank God for that. We all have our own beliefs, our own favourite music, our own method of skinning rabbits, oh, and our own way of bashing up hot metal. And just as a lot of people like Metallica or the Rolling Stones while others prefer Burl Ives or Mary Black a lot of people forge one way while others forge another. (Celtic generally for me anytime) In the end everybody makes good music in someones eyes.

But then all of a sudden Metallica come up with a rendition of 'Whiskey in the Jar'. Mmmmm I think, they can't be that bad after all!

Do I want to learn Hofi's 'sytem' of making a taper in 3/8 stuff in one heat? Not particularly, after the development of this thread.

Good on ya Hofi. (Strine for 'may good blessings be upon you'). No doubt your method works fine which is great. I didn't misunderstand, I just posted my method. I thought that was the idea?

By the way, my method works great too and enables me to forge an 8-"10" taper from 5/16 to 3/8 in one heat as well. An advantage of the method is there is no need to calculate anything...just whack the thing 'till you get the right length.

Each to his own eh?

And I would have to say it is a video about playing with fire. He who plays with fire gets hands burnt. Did I also notice hands under the power hammer. He who puts hand on power hammer block gets flat hand.

Another four minutes of my life wasted.

That you misinterpreted the instruction for a 3" taper notwithstanding (I sympathise with your reason), in aiming for a particular tapered length I taper only the tip to the desired size. I may only achieve a third of the desired tapered length in the first heat. In subsequent heats I take the taper back until I meet the specified length 'on the plan'. This method was explained to me when I tried to taper a six foot length from 3/4" down to 1/4" and it worked a treat.

As for only hitting on two sides I agree with the lifting of the "managing hand" (I like the term Hofi) but if only one sde is touching the anvil it will lose heat quicker and therefor not react the same as the side getting belted with the hammer. It pays to at least check the far side to see how its going occasionally

The perfect video to show my assistant who is having just a little bit of trouble banging pegs in the ground with the sledge. I think it's the wind blowing the hammer off target:rolleyes: This video might just get him to change his methods.

Er...can't take credit for the phi thing. See JWB's post

No, I think the bloke is chewing his fingernails...bad move

Praps your looking too hard Ten:)

Name both of the characters Glenn and stick it on ebay It' gotta be worth a few gorillas (thousands)

What about Paddy is that alright? What about 'late for dinner'? I hate being called late for dinner

Does the length of the short end divided by the length of the attached leg equal the length of the attached leg divided by the long end?

Looks like a square. If it wasn't a square I think I'd still use it as a square:) Is it a square with a handle?

Forge welded...great stuff

BTW, referring to the new photo, who is the lady in the hat on the left of the T and who is the bloke on the right, scratching his chin. Spooky

Is it right way up or back to front? Is the angle between both members a right angle? Are the obvious ratios the same? Are the holes part of the item or part of the scrap piece of steel used for the job? How big is it?

The end result for me is a trifling aspect of the whole game. I couldn't give a rat's toss about the product. In fact I've spent weeks (on and off) forging something and given it away to a total stranger at a demo. Admittedly the total stranger must show an abundant appreciation for the effort. For me it's the process and only the process. I am only interested in the development of an ability to achieve this trifling end result.

Freezing slack tubs??? I don't think so. Not here at least. Half the State is on fire cos of the weather. I half expect a helicopter to drop it's snorkel into the tub and suck it dry. They're allowed to get fire fighting water from wherever they like...farm dams, reservoirs, swimming pools etc, and at the rate these are drying up on account of the drought, slack tubs might be all that's left.

Still, I'm half a world away from places that freeze over in December. Nonetheless Glenn, I'll keep an eye out for hard stuff lying across the tub for the next cuppla months ;)

The rule at places where I demo and therefor need a portable setup is that you can't use electricity. (Save all the backlash, I've heard it all before and can't be bothered with the argument but try it anyway if you like) One of the reasons for making this rule was to discourage the display of carp that came with the squirrel cages and the generators etc. Not that I'm saying all squirrel cage blowers etc produce carp but in my experience the two go together like bread and jam (jelly).

Another advantage of the hand cranked blower is it occupies the hand which would otherwise light up a ghasper :mad:

Geez???????

I've been thinking about this all day and can't think why this won't work. Forge the two parts, slot them together and join with a welding heat. Allow a bit for loss and forge or file to final shape. Cut the teeth as previously described.

Main point is there's no pesky fullering to do:)

Paying to receive calls????? How does that work?

As an aside... seen in the daily newspaper. Our telco "Telstra" have decided to up certain call charges. They quote the ever increasing competition as the reason. How does that work??

A simple fuller can be made from a piece of round bar. Hold it over the work and hit it. Behold..it leaves a dent. For your tap however you may need to get a bit smarter. You will need a bottom fuller as well and a means of holding everything steady. Two round bars hinged together somehow will make a fine top and bottom fuller that can sit in the hardy hole.
Best advice I can give is to work it out with a piece of modelling clay using the tools you intend to work the iron with. Bon chance and keep us posted