Blood Groove

Thanks rmcpb.

I'm making a roughly 12 inch knife out of 1095 steel and have put a lot of work in it. I'd like to know what your most reliable ways of treating 1095 are and if maybe you have any tips that would prevent warping or cracking. I've already had one successful bowie knife made from 1095, but I'd always like to learn more about heat treating. Thanks a lot. :D

I'm in a blacksmithing apprenticeship and I'm trying to make a knife from a crow bar. My idea is to have a super sturdy knife that has the pry head of a crow bar on the butt of the knife. That would make it good for prying (which knives are usually used for but don't axcel at). Anyway I've tried twice to make one, and both knives have cracked in heat treating. DOes anyone know what type of steel crow bars are made out of (I was using a craftsman) and if so how to heat treat them? We were using a salt water solution, would oil have been better? Any info will help, thanks
-Blood Groove

Funny I was just working a student through a project last weekend---a knife made from an old crow bar I picked up at the fleamarket.

Now of course you gave us all the details like the level of finish and thickness of edge before quench and the temp/colour you quenched at right? They make a difference on how a piece quenches.

Anyway since this was junkyard steel I of course had my student reserve a piece of the original stock and forge it down to blade dimensions and did a cleanup on it to get a test piece for heat treat testing---you don't want to have a learning experience on the real blade right?

So we heat treated it in plain water---not usually my first test, warm oil would be that; but crow bars are often medium carbon steel and it was the test piece and so we would know to go oil if it reacted badly and could try it again in brine if it was ok in oil.

No problem with water but it was a bit softer under the file than I liked so I tried brine last Sunday and it came out nicely!

The sample piece was the end with the nail puller and when forging it down it just became a "fish knife" with the nail puller being the flukes that are the tang---I didn't harden the flukes as they had been left rough ground. It's self hilted with the flukes resting in your palm and thumb and forefinger in indents right before the blade starts---looks like it would make a skinner with a curved blade.

May be several reasons you had trouble: too hot when you quenched it, too thin when you quenched it, rough finishing marks that can propagate a crack or as you suspect wrong quenchant for that alloy.

Spark test it to get an idea of the carbon content and compare it to a set of known standards, (1018, HC RR Spike~1030, file--1095, etc.). Very unlikely to be an air hardening steel---why pay $$$ for a piece of steel that needs to be tough but will only sell for $; but spark testing will tell you.

Also as a used piece it may have suffered damage---why I saved the nail puller and curve for the test piece---most likely to have been stressed or hammered on.

I don't mean to get into a big long discusion about the term "Blood Groove" ('specially since it's OT) but the groove in the Ka-Bar and just about any blade with a fuller is there for weight reduction and strength. Nothing more. I have to agree, though; "Blood Groove" is a pretty cool term. Misnomer, but still cool

Don't know what steel, but one suggestion on the heat-treat.

Before your final heat-treat, do something called Thermal Cycling of the blade.

To do this, you heat it up to critical temp, pull in out of the heat, and let it air-cool until you don't see any red color in the blade. Then put it back into the heat and do this 2 more times. They heat it back up to temp and quench.

Thermal Cycling helps remove any internal "stress" put into the blade in the forging/bending process. It also "refines" the grain structure of the steel - shrinks the grain structure. When you heat the steel up to forging temps, the grain structure expands. Thermal Cycling reduces the size back down.

This will make the final steel much less "brittle". It's a little tip I learned from a knife maker. He suggested it when I was having problems making Flint Strikers, and having them be too brittle after heat-treating.

Hope that helps.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

Ah I can see that mistake being made. Well, no worries, I really consider it a compliment that you thought I was in the military I did name myself Blood Groove after the one in my Ka-bar though. haha

Well I thank you for your service in the Marine Corps. I'll always respect someone who's served their country. I'm kind of embarrassed to say that I wasn't in the military. What was it I said that made you think I was in the service?

Hi. I had a designe for a knife, and it incorperated the pry head of a crow bar as the butt of the knife. I had been making it for about a month, and then I got to the heat treating. Saddly the knife broke during this process. That stuff is hard! We didn't even get it up the the critical temperature when we put it in the water to treat it, but it broke anyway. Usually we heat treat in oil, but were experamenting with a salt water. This was also an old Crow bar. Probably made in America:D So my question is do any of you know what metal it might have been made from, and if so how do you harden that metal. We were thinking that it might have been an air hardened steel or something. Any info on this is going to help with my next attempt. Thanks.

Hi. I'm a knife nut basically. I love reading about them, collecting them, and desinging them. I am currently a Black Smith's apprentice. He's mostly teaching me how to make knives though. I've already made a nice 11 3/4th inch bowie knife. It's make out of 1095 high carbon spring steel, and has a brass guard with a black walnut handle. I'm basically here to read what more experienced people have to say about things. Thanks.