spixycat

So Thomas, Any suggestions on how to approach this repair? FYI: I have been filing and polishing a small area of one of the Y sections on the end that I definitly should not have cut appart. The photo shows the 1 out of 3 and this is the top one that will take only stretching force (no compression) and a 1/3 of the gate's weight as shear force. I polished it with 300, 400 and 800 grid water based sand paper for quite a while: used a large magnifier glass and even a 500Watt lamp (smaller eye opening so more picture depth) and I can't see anything that would suggest traces of silicium (fibers) or any thing other contamination : the iron looks just perfect: the only marks I can see were caused by the grinder which can be ignored. I think I need a good microscope, in order to see the structure of the iron. First attempt 800 grid with grinding traces:

Dear ThomasPowers Mea culpa. I want to offer my apologies to anybody that has been offended by me using the phrase that "I restore": that is totally inappropriate because a I am just a beginner. I really appriciate comments like these/this.

Thanks DSW: indeed sparktest also gives essential information. I have seen the following video of Jody from weldingtipsandtricks.com that is very similar, however he also uses a normal file to compare metals against known metals.

Hi Jerome Werth, Very good information, I almost understand all aspects. So, it sounds like cutting off these Y's was a very bad idea because I didn't know what I was dealing with and the implications when welding them back. Thank God this is not a commision gate but a learning-project-gate: if it works out great because it can be a functional gate or otherwise it might become a decrotive piece in a nice garden or something: this sounds sad but that was the risk of this learning project. And I do want to deliver a gate that can withstand professional critisizm or though question like these above. And lets face it: I do learn a lot by goofing up the Y's by cutting them off in a few minutes. A possible option might be is to forge weld the Y's back but that may be a LOT of work.... Last question: what is considerd to be mild steel? How can I determine that it is mild steel? Last but not least: Up till now the welding is going just fine: you can see right away if there is a problem of some sort: you see ie rust, craters impurities, contemenation etc etc etc : with these larger pieces you can also see color changes of the hot metal which I think is a sign that it is a faulty weld. Many thanks for your input, André

Hi All, Many thanks for all the reply, really helps me to get an idea where I am at. Here some feedback and or questions per comment given: Timothy Miller: ------------------- what is the difference between TIG welding and using gas torch? I my limited experience I would say that these are almost identical: they will both create a puddle to add a filler material. I really do like the idea of using filler bronze so that the places of repair can be identified which is great I think: I was considering to leave this added in area's "new" (if that would be possible) with a ie clear varnish to clearly see the repaired area's: bronze will give that same idea, I like it very much. And don't get me wrong: I dò want to keep the remainding old identity. Can you explain to me why these cut and weld are incorrect which means I think and correct me when I am wrong "weaker" that the wrought iron? Will bronze create stronger welds? Can you elaborate a bit more why TIG welding will damage the wrought iron and using bronze and gas won't? I want to understand this because it is a serious flaw in my assumption that I can TIG weld iron or in this case wrought iron, If I understand you correctly TIG welding using a filler is incompatable with wrought iron. ThomasPowers --------------------- That is true resuing wrough iron as a filler wire. The new 12 mm diameter rivets willl be made from off the selve solid bars, not from wrough iron, so I think I am safe to use in this particular case my TIG torch to make the river red/white hot. But please correct me when I am wrong. Note that the wrough iron wont (I guess) melt? John McPherson ----------------------- I believe that these "the bolts being hex pattern" have replaced all the original rivets, that is what I think. But you may have a point. I will check the gate to see which other parts have been rivited. If it is a younger then I would also expect some welds and that is not the case. Also the colors are a bit different than what I would expect: the base color on the bare metal is a salmon light pink/red color and the green is also quite a lite green color. Over the whole gate a cheaper black coat has been applied that crumbles easily off because it is cracked. If it is old which I hope is the case, than I want to keep that original paint so no sandblasting etc etc which seems today's way of restoration of an old antique piece: sandblast and powdercoat it.. brrrrr I will get back on this with more photo's. The Y shape pieces as can be seen on the photo would be I guess quite different when the gate is much younger. cvmikeray ------------- refers back to my first question : what are the differences between gas and TIG welding which is my basic question SoCal Dave ---------------- in this case I am the owner :) An yes I do want to hide as much as possible the affected area's DSW ------- I have riveted deom new stock 8mm bars rivets using the TIG tourch and it worked just fine: no problem at all. Mind you I use a pedal to adjust the amparage`of the TIG torch which works really wel jmccustomknives ----------------------- I would like to be a purits too if I could but at this time that is not an option, so the only thing is try to be "pure" as possible. That means in my case that the strenght sould not be affected or compromised when there tension like the cut of pieces that I cut off just were there was a vertical bar. Might have been the biggest mistake that ruïnd the gate completely, that I don't know yet. But this is best I can with my very limited resource and also very limited space ThomasPowers --------------------- At what temperature will these "ferrous silicate" melt? And these will not melt when using a tourch? Basicly the first question covers this aspect also. May thanks for the very usefull comments, it helps me to better understand wham I am doing. Not that this an axuse but I am doing this stuff since one year by the way. Previously I had no welding experience at all. This might explain better the context in which I have been asking these questions Bye!

Hi All, I have been working on a Gate for a while (see critique My work) and have vèry limited space, minimum amount of tools nor forge no anvil but I use a TIG welder + grinder and a tiny space. My objective is to bring this I think 100+ years old gate back to it's former glory, which means bringing back proper rivets with a 12 mm diameter shafts (6 of those big buggers..) which where badly rusted nuts and bolds that were almost impossible to remove (took a long time to figure out a way) I am sure that my post will raise some eyebrows but my points is that using these very modern technique allows me to restore and add material there where it has been rusted away for a very long time. I am not talking (yet) about building new things using this technique, no only "preservation" which means that nothings gets replaced: every part is brought back to it former glory using only TIG welding which allows a complete control of the material added Question: who else is using this approach? Like to share idea's etc etc Regards from the Netherlands André

Hi All, I am restoring a gate in quite a different way (I think) using * Cebora 1965 TIG welder 5-200Amps DC wìth pedal * Bosch angle grinder (new) * Bosch second hand Drill My working are is my back garden when it is nice wheather and otherwise a tiny shed with a 1x2.5 meter working area and a workmate Black and Decker and a so called "third hand" (have to look it up, nice quality meant for soldering PCB but not built for large forces) My object is a sober designed gate but with beautiful features, very well made. It had been modified in the past: all rivets that hold the 3 main horizontal bars which split into (vèry smart design) Y to make a direct connection to the (don't know the exact name) the "style" around which the porch rotates: I am talking about the most important parts of the gate. So the rivets were replaced by nuts and bolts that were in a bad shape. The lowest connection was visably quite in a bad shape: there was a lot of rust formed. The middle and top connection were in a decent shape Objective My objective is to restore this gate back to, as far as possible, it's former glory. Based on the information and measurements taken from similar parts to understand what has been affected or rusted away over the may be last 100 years: I have no idea yet from which period this gate is. Least intrusive May sound strange but the objective is to change the minimum amount, or ideally invisable preservation of this gate. Up till now the only focus has been the restoration of those 3 Y shaped connections Learning project This is my first project on a gate like this, the main goal is to gain as much as possible experience, understanding of both antique wrought iron and TIG welding What have I done so far? the removal of the nuts and bolts was a LOT of work, I had to cut the Y connections in order to be able to seperate them from the rotation style. Last couple of weeks I have been focussing on getting the Y connection parts back in shape: 1 is finished, 2th is almost finished and the third on is 60% done: the last one is the most affected one: some area's are 4 to 5 mm lower compared to the other 2 Y connections It has been a long day today but I can't wait posting my project to get some feedback. Till now nobody with "real" knowledge has made any comments. Thanks in advance Photo's The original gate part of the porch as it arrived: The "Y connection" original with the nuts and bolds: The detached Y conn all 3 connections bottom part which was in worst case partly TIG welded just after TIG welding the cuts made by the angle grinder First one almost read: 12mm rods will become the rivets, upper one also just TIG welded