Bryce Masuk

many car parts will work like axle shafts, transmission main shafts, springs and torsion bars.

you might be able to find a chart i know there is one relating to GM car parts explaining which steel is where for 80's and older cars


your tongs seems pretty good for your first ones, when i first started I could barely control the hammer and I got tired real fast it would take me several sessions to make one set of tongs

We live in the Era of incredible designs in technology

too bad all most all of them are poorly made or purposely designed to break

thanks for the tips i have also seen people using a cone shell with a string to draw scrolls whih makes sence because it is a scroll in a spiral

I love to study architecture I have a 60's copy of banister fletcher's

A history of architecture on the comparative method

its quite an amazing book the drawings in it are incredible as well as the vast amount of knowledge from many time periods it is truly inspiring, next to seeing the real thing, this book is quite the masterpiece

here is a drawing I worked on today I didnt really nit pick it and It was off the top of my head I didnt copy anyone unless I did it sublimially. it took about 1 hour

here is another one from tonight

Thank you to everyone for the comments and personal imput

I think a couple people took me slightly too litteraly or maybe I just poorly explained things, or maybe I am just a prick unintentionally

maybe I was just hoping that there was a method to it similar to sheet metal pattern development (some of the things are interchangable)

if you want to draw a oval it seems easier to draft it than to do it by hand its pretty hard for me to do it by hand with 4 sides the same


I have always been semi decent at sketching things I always make sure i spend a close to an hour per day drawing whatever it might be
I have never been good at printing or symetrical stuff though and i want to be

here are few of my drawings they are all pretty rough some of them are me drawing other people work, some are unfinished, some are totally random

Because my work is so rough and imperfect, I have along ways to go to begin to perfect it
I keep my trunk filled with drawings these are just on my desk/in my bag

I've seen many blacksmiths who can turn a scroll at the anvil that is incredibly eye-sweet in no time. I would use your method if I was machining them out on my CNC. Learn to sketch and learn to turn a scroll. “Become one with the force”. There aren't enough equations devised to match a good eye. To me that is what this craft is about. Both of the examples shown are, to my eye, rather ugly approximations. Sun-flowers reflects a beautiful symmetry and a mathematical uniformity on average. And yet no two are alike. There is incredible potential in your mind and hands, use them, exercise them and with practice they will learn without you even consciously thinking about it.

I am just using it as a guideline to start with I can eyeball things as well at work I am not encouraged to measure "just make it like so, and if it looks right its done right"

sometimes thinking solves problems other times it just complicates things, I am just trying to grasp as many idea's as i can find so i can find my own perspective in all things in life

blacksmithing without design is like a gun without aim

I find that since there are so many option's Idea's pop into my head as I work and I come up with more idea's then I can make in a month and end up cluster F***ed with 12 projects on the floor half finished.

and then I keep starting more, practicing random techniques

what I really want is some really good idea's worth finishing and well planned then i can make it happen

I feel your pain bro. I have a torn tendon in my right forearm, right at the upper condyle. Any radial movement at all makes me want to scream. I am really focusing on using my back muscles.

yeah well I have heeded the advice after the pain went away and came back slightly I realized it time for the doctor

I have taken tomorrow off work to see the doctor
I know that this means waiting to see a specialist and so forth

I have had fear from this screwing me over on the long term from the beginning the pain isnt horrible like before but I know it needs to heal because something must be wrong

even if it means being replaced at work my health must come first

Yeah neat guy I understand that kind of scroll

there is also this for a different kind

My link


Your right grant there is art and engineering but somewhere they mesh,

nature is art perfectly engineered so it seems

I dont know I know I am missing something but I am unsure what it is... maybe I will find it in the next 20 years or something I just know there is a easier/better method than what i am doing now

My link


I know I can make things much better than I do now I have the ability it seems I lack the true experiance in design to produce what I want on paper enough that I am entirely happy to progress into it fully


you can see my little website here www.themetalsculptor.com
everything I have made so far is without a real drawing just a rough sketch and guesstimated diamention and then I go to work,

I am not happy with any of it I know if i can get everything down perfectly on paper that I can make everything like it should be and if plan it properly it should turn out close to how i want it.

for me to progress I need to set defined limits and diamentions and make myself produce them nearly exactly as drawn if you cant do that then your just screwing around guessing and fixing/changing things all the time (not that you could ever expect to get rid of that but as little as possible is usually best)

Besides if I was a real apprentice blacksmith its what I would be expected to do just like I do now with fabrication.

except the apprentice doesnt make all the decision's/designs he just makes the pieces and assembles them

I guess I am doing everything ass backwards story of my life.

I am not really interested in tracing it or scaling it up yet until I develop the pattern I am pretty sure I can draw what I would need by hand on my welding table


I am more interested in how scrolls like this are drawn from scratch with the correct spacing and accurate connections

I just bought some 8 square per inch graph paper usually I just make my own graph on the paper but its pretty boring


I see many types of scrolls seem to be drawn using a compass or some kind of triangulation or even math forumulas

Sounds like some kind of mechanical lift may be needed too...
Phil

yeah we use an engine hoist or the side boom on the forklift is pretty handy

we have made some 65ft gates in the shop I work in now we use the cantileaver setups on these babys and they dont come light or cheap

some of them would turn a semi truck into a pancake

my buddy at work make some huge spikes for the gate so when the two interlock when closed the spikes go though the frames which were all 4" square tubing

See the Man, get the opinions, scans, and tests. Pray for the best. Discuss your hobbies too, and ask to see an occupational or sports therapist for repetitive motion concerns as part of your treatment.

Phil

I am prety sure grinding and polishing is the culprit plus the regular 300lb lifts arent helping installing railings and such

it doesnt hurt like before but i wont be able to grind with my left hand or hammer for awhile

looks like another month of no blacksmithing but i cant take any risks

Does anyone have suggestions on books teaching about drafting for ornamental ironwork?

I am mostly interested in the complex design's that involve pieces that seem to be using pieces that must be calculated or geometrically constructed in some way or perfectly drawn with trial and error



I know there must be some methods to the process.

I am likely missing them

I have managed to copy the work of some of the drawings but it is very very time consuming and I just just cant reproduce it like I should be able to with most things

Not that I would like to copy the work of others in metal but to understand how and why may eventually help me

Just for instance how what approach would you take to drawing something like this to scale Accurately

if everything done in a grid typically and just freehanded?

Does anyone have suggestions on books teaching about drafting for ornamental ironwork?

I am mostly interested in the complex design's that involve pieces that seem to be using pieces that must be calculated or geometrically constructed in some way or perfectly drawn with trial and error



I know there must be some methods to the process.

I am likely missing them

I have managed to copy the work of some of the drawings but it is very very time consuming and I just just cant reproduce it like I should be able to with most things

Not that I would like to copy the work of others in metal but to understand how and why may eventually help me

in the shop my old man worked in they had about 400' x 400' floor of platen tables

and million jigs for all purposes

the belt sander had like 30 ft belt for graining metal

everything was old grimey machinery things blacksmiths dream about including a foundry

all doing mostly decorative metalwork and some industrial

You need to be careful and see a good orthopedic Dr.. I went to my Doc with what I thought was tendonitis, he gave me a shot & it did no good. Went to my orthopedic surgeon a month or so later and he gave me another shot in a slightly different spot & it did no good. Finally had an MRI and it showed that the tendon was torn over 50%. Had to have it surgically reattatched & wait another 3 months before I could use a hammer again.

I probley should go see the doctor, its about time

It really really hurt at one point it seemed completely healed recently

I strained my arm at work over 2 months ago and it got better just over a 2 weeks ago.

now its starting to hurt only when I hammer I know I am an idiot for trying (now) but I figured that if it was still injured it would hurt

it hasnt gotten as bad as it was but this means no blacksmithing for awhile clearly I just bought a new anvil last weekend. which of course makes it way worse

I was right handed welding and grinding for a month and a half somehow I get along it just slows me down
I can hammer pretty good with my right hand I just dont have the same power and control in it
looks like I will have to be content drawing for awhile again.

Talk about luck brian brazeal is probley one of the best technical blacksmiths I have seen

I am hoping to make it down to learn from brian at some point

if you learn from him you wont have the chance to form bad habits

That sounds like an effective system, and would retain your best workers for sure


Its pretty hard to measure an hours value, because the amount of work produced depends on alot of things

I remember the exact place and time when I decided the path for rest of my life, from then on it was my passion and drive that has allowed me to reach this point. Its not over yet, it may end heroic or tragic but the constant is my insatiable obsession to build stuff. I think my “ponder time” is all the time, building a vision of what work lies ahead or solving the riddle of which way I turn the door knob ever time I enter a room. I’m with Larry on this one, I too really don’t know what I’m doing when running my business, hell I can’t grasp the gist of money. All I know is when the alarm goes off my focus is on how to build it bigger, better and faster, I’m just glad someone recognized my ability and has patronized my endeavors.

Makes sence to me, the only people who can become successful blacksmiths are people that would do the work for free,
before anyone can recognize you have to be worthy of it.

I have worked in metal shops run by business men and they dont work properly, its always a series of complaints to everyone
they scream about numbers and "production"

the best shops are run by tradesmen at least as an employee they know how things work.
plus its pretty hard to know how to quote something properly if you have never done it yourself

some hours you make 10 times the regular amount
many others you lose money or break even

take what you get and make the best of it

around here the shop rate is 90-150 dollars per hour depending on what you are doing
work with stainless is always about 150 a hour

most of the railing/gate places around here are totally out to lunch no work and no money

I am lucky I work in a jobber shop we do everything you can imagine it probley the best way to have a good business
we make railings and gates
do sheet metal with stainless
repair buckets and industrial stuff as make stuff for mills and factory's
we do automotive and marine and make aluminum ramps

I never know what will be in my hands or what material it will be made from
its like the daily lottery in a 3 man shop

I like it alot but its not truly what I would choose to do but I get to do that at home I am building towards it slowly

I need to journeyman in the USA learn more about the craft and slowly build a reputation

right now I do some straight fabrication for people, most people that are wanting to buy from a backyard shop want backyard prices
its all good though it pays for my tools

Mike your design looks good to me with the bottom plate blocking out for the centerpiece it should look complete

the design looks english to me, like something I have seen before in someway

the craftsmanship looks top notch

hopefully it doesnt kill you to produce it to your standards in such a short period of time

I would use a chop saw and get a good quality wheel or numerous cheap ones

and cut real slow

very little pressure


when you cut something like this make sure you cut face the thinnest side up into the wheel
so the wheel is making the "least" contact with the metal otherwise it will probley burn out your saw and blow though disks

just like if you were cutting flat bar try one way then the other and the difference is night and day

its going to take some time but it will do it I have cut though 3 inch round on a chopsaw when a bandsaw blade broke and i had none

its not the best method but it can get the job done

looks good to me

after seeing a few on here i made this thing

my first attempt


the collars were done straight out of the forge

i couldnt really correct them since my torch was out of oxy

good learning experiance to say the least

I liked that, Frosty and Grant!

The more skills you have the better, fabrication can be used for anything

there are stone fabricator's

you can fabricate tales of grandure,

my friend who taught me some tricks in sheet metal came from romania they call everyone "metal fabricators"

at least back when he was there in the communist days

they taught him how to smith, machine, weld, sheetmetal, everything

they used to polish large airplane props made from aluminum BY HAND with a sander

all the gutters at the time were made only 1 meter long basicly they were half a 5 inch circle with a 1 inch break to 90 on both sides.

they were all soldered at the joints and riveted.


another important skill constantly over looked is being able to survey judge and MEASURE a site for building and installation and then make it all come together in reality.

if you cant do that properly all your other skills are somewhat of a moot point unless your always working under someone or never installing it.

essentially you need to be a complete tradesman, it takes a great amount of time and experiance to have all the skills

this is why you can see people who are young 20 years or less that are amazingly talented artists, guitar players, athletes, and many other things but its a single purpose skill some of them are as good as the people with more years of experiance,

but in blacksmithing and metalwork in general I have never seen anyone that can rival the old hands except in one skill like welding or forging but to become the complete package is life time journey,

impatience is a killer I often screw things but because I am overly excited or working too hard too fast, then humility kicks you in the teeth

looks like you have done a nice job so far

what is it made from 1/8th plate or thinner?

does it have a wire frame?

work was done hot or cold?

Well said Bryce, well said.

In part the signoff about art and craftsmanship reminds me of well heck is almost exactly what I've thought for a long time. My definition of art is: transendant craftsmanship. Art is communication its one person's way of saying something and it's up to the observer, feeler, taster, whateverer to pay enough attention to get a message. Not THE message, just A message.

Yeah I draw, lots but I'm no artist with a pencil, not hardly. I have lots of training on a drafting table and taught myself CAD, this lets me make precision drawings which on occasion are necessary. My other big friend is graff paper, I make lots of concept sketches and working drawings on graff paper. It doesn't matter what you draw on or even if you draw. What matters is can you make what you see? Can you make it well enough other folk see what you do? When I say "make" I'm not talking about blacksmithing or sculpture, I'm talking about whatever it is you do to express yourself be it speaking or writing, drawing, painting, throwing clay, casting metal forging iron or finishing concrete. Anything taken to a high degree of accomplishment is art and skill or not, if it speaks to people it's ART.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Frosty the Lucky

Yeah, well I found once I had learned the basic basic's I kept wanting to forge and i found after awhile I would be forging faster than I could come up with Idea's on the fly,

I realized everything I had been ordered to make in work places came from drawing which i had no envolvement in, often I would never see the drawing just be handed a cut list.

I quickly realized that my greatest flaw was a lack of knowledge of design, but mostly FULLY planning the design

I can visualize what i want but it seems to lack the connection that is required to physically make it in reality and make it so it looks good and functions and has structural integrity.

Drawing to full scale is something autocad will never be able to do unless you manage to come up with a 10" x 20" printer

Autocad is something I have been practicing with as well the beauty of some of these programs is the FX parameters the abilty to calculate weight accurately, as well as friction and motion and so forth

but for real artistic iron work it doesnt have the same value its just too calculating, ridgid, and accurate

if you were going to program it into a special cnc unit and have it all made it just wouldnt look right

I will post some of my drawings once I finish a few of my better ones off, right now I look at is as being the time where I should copy the work of the masters on to paper as best I can.

then thing of my own idea's and the things I like within the work of past,

it takes time though some of my good drawings are 40 hours of work and still unfinished.