dothacker

Cast meaning you cast the shape, rather than the wool-resembling forms or non-solid forms. Glass casting uses different materials, at least as far as I've seen anyway. It does get hard and brittle, but so does cast iron. Many forges still use this type of refractory, though it is less convenient than woolen types. They can be used for a long time.

Alright, so if we have this here: http://www.iforgeiron.com/Blueprints01/BP0192gasforge/4PICT0057.jpg there is space between the pipe and the inner opening? I can weld the reducer to the outside then, as well? *edit* Two replies since I hit the reply button, ok. As for freon tanks, those are not considered common here, as are pipe fittings, though I can go to a store far away and get some. It did answer some questions about the burner, which I was unable to find sufficient information about on the rest of the forum. I will try to make some progress on the burner tomorrow. Thanks for the input.

Peacock, I was thinking of turning it on a lathe and welding it to the pipe and sq stock. The print itself was a bit confusing, though. Ironstein, I was also debating upon whether to burn it out on a CNC plasma and roll it, it would be perfect size and shape, I was concerned of if it could withstand the heat, if it came into contact with it. If it's at the top and it throws down on top, does that present an issue of heating the steel too much, or did I misread the intention of your statement? Like I said, it may turn out to be less trouble to make the parts than to go to town in the winter then strip the galvanization with acetic acid (it's all I can get right now). However, I'll also ask if anyone has spare parts around. *edit* What I meant to say by confusing was that instead of the 1/8 pipe, I'm using 3/4, and I'm not sure what the sq tubing is for, to hold the pipe to the reducer? It doesn't quite match the print.

For the bell, since we are not using any of the thread, can I just weld up something in that shape? Does that need to be very thick or can I get away with bending up a cone from 16g steel?

I could have sworn I put credit at the end, but I guess I did not, my mistake. Where did you get that idea? I do not look for credit anywhere like most who make a thread to say "Hey, look what I made today." I see no uniquity, a forge is a container, all others are a variation. I am rejecting harassment replies such as yours, you cannot seem to accept that I do in fact accept refractory, while having said what I did. I will admit, I did not expect people to take it so literal, else I'd have worded it in another manner, so that is my mistake. Did you, once more, not read? I am going with his idea and removing my existing torch to build what he suggested for a burner. I'd rather take advice from someone who shall not be a hypocrite, and keep a cool head. Thank you, the argument is officially dead.

How will this be assembled? A simple M$ paint/gimp picture will suffice.

I made one like that before, but it's too short. It got really hot though. So, to increase the power of my torch, what would you recommend? I have welding tools and as odd as it is, it's easier for me to make stuff than to go to a hw store and buy pipe bits.

I have seen it, but it would not matter where on his, as his is round to begin with. So I have advice from 2 people here saying that it should be toward the back wall on the side, and this one where it's in the center on the side. What are your opinions on each?

Thank you, this is perhaps the first pleasant reply so far. The mass part makes sense, but I'd rather not spend money on wool when I already bought castable refractory good for 3500 degrees F. I plan on making that about half an inch to an inch thick. A small space like that will be quick to heat, I suppose. Even enclosing the torch and metal in a coffee can with nothing else increased the temperature dramatically, so I thought it wouldn't take much to heat a small space like what I'm imagining my forge will be after refractory. However, as most of the mass will be refractory, it would be different than if I was heating up steel alone, right? So you say 10-12 cubic inches, right? Given the final inside dimensions will be somewhere near 7.75"X2.625"X2.625", are you saying this will be sufficient, or not?

In the same sense that a computer is never required in your life. It just makes things easier. What is REQUIRED is food, shelter, water, etc. Do you see what I meant? I was hoping we were past the trolling. I WILL be using refractory and I DO believe that in 99% of forges, it SHOULD be used. I will try not to say once more what I have said many times before regarding my intention of refractory. We are done. Having gone past the argument portion, for good, what indeed makes mine different than any of the other forges I have found on google? Other than using wool, that is. I still have no definitive answer on where to put the hole, or why, and after searching and even asking, no replies on burners. Sure I could steal the design linked here a hundred times, but that website itself says not to and that there are myriads of working designs for gas forges, some of his are similar to mine, and that the premade burners on his site need to be modified to suit your purposes. If I did a bad job at searching, link me to useful information and then shun my searching skills.

Researching blacksmithing for four years, note my many statements stating my lack of ever making a gas forge. Please state for me what is wrong and I will fix it. Even while refractory is a casing, you clearly have not read my posts and merely skimmed to the words that you disliked. Again, you have not fully read what I have typed. I have on many occasions stated that refractory will, and let me state that again so that this time you may skim the word, will, be used, but only after the hole is drilled, you do not cast material and drill through it, it is not practical and it makes it unstable. I have never had the intention of holding anything but a hammer and tongs in my hands during the forging process. Thank you.

Well, until now, it worked fine in open air with no housing of any sort. Been using it not to forge, but heat treat a few things (of little importance because there is no even heating, but beats dead soft steel). My torch presently is the TS3000 Trigger-Start Bernzomatic Torch. (Product Detail) Btw, they misspelled "applications" on that page. :P

Wool is too expensive, I'm using castable refractory. By the way, I stated earlier 9.5"X4"X4". Again, stated earlier, I cannot add any refractory until the hole is placed, and yes, a small propane torch that uses those blue propane bottles. Sure, but you never explained why it would not work "even with good placement". Why also will that torch not work?

Hmmm...the only difference I see between mine and this: Plans to build a simple gas forge is that mine is square (round after refractory is added), and his is round. Obviously he intends to forge larger objects, so he uses a larger diameter. Or am I wrong, and there is something more? I still am not seeing what makes mine so bad, could you please explain what is wrong in detail so I may learn? I do not care if I must start over, I could use this box for storage of tools or something, it may even work for a coal forge, though it would not hold much. However, it seems to be an "exercise in futility" to try and run a forum for help and not teach people. All this sarcasm is not getting anyone anywhere. Now, ironstein, a lot of the ones on google are worse off than mine. I know mine could heat steel, but I want it to be as efficient as it could be, no sense putting the hole one place when it would be tons better in the right place. The only similarity is that they're all boxes or tubes with a hole filled with refractory on the inside.

Thanks for your input, but would you mind explaining why?

Regardless, can we get past this now and would you please offer some useful input toward the better answering of my previous stated question regarding hole placement and usage/design of said burner systems as well?

I already stated what I meant by that. There are times where it IS required, such as with thinner cases to make things more practical, but suppose you had some of the older 1" thick cases, you will not burn through that with normal forging. However, it is not cost effective to have walls that thick these days so we compensate with refractory. The added benefit is the extra heat retention. Can we just drop the semantics and get to the issue at point? This thread has become just a collective argument and that really was not my intention. I was just hoping to have a simple question answered by those who know more than I.

Why would you turn the torch upside down? I don't think you're supposed to do that anyway. As for the burner, I have looked and I can't find much info about what a burner exactly is or does. That is what the refractory is for, Bryce. But regardless of how hot the box gets, I cannot try it until I have put a hole in it. :P

I was not referring to you in specific. I did post what I was trying to do, I need to figure out where to put the hole for the torch. I have pistol drills and drill presses at my disposal for this. I have been given no answers. I am aware of the fire triangle. I'll admit, however, that I do not know a lot about gas forges, they are different from coal types. I figured the door would provide plenty of air with maybe another hole drilled in the side (not sure where relative to the torch hole) with a fan to blow air in. I did take a look and there wasn't much to be found about burners. I am not trying to argue here, but it does seem like you could ask questions to fill in the gaps that I did not provide info about. As stated, I am new to gas forges and I willingly state that I do not know enough to provide every detail.

This is a small forge, my torch will be a little one that uses those small blue cylinders. However, as I said before, I cannot place refractory until I know where to do the hole issue. It will not be used much, just for small stuff. It's 9.5"X4"X4". Refractory is required if you use a thinner steel, it'll make it last longer, but in theory you could forge in a soupcan...for about half an hour before it falls apart to nothing. Anyway, I'm seeing more complaint than help. Are there any actual ideas on how to finish this up? Thanks.

The door is 1/4" thick steel, as is the rest. Refractory is never required, it just makes heat loss less and makes it more efficient. I may indeed line it, but I cannot until I decide where to best place the hole. I could put it in the bottom (the shiny side) in the center and have the torch direct straight at the metal placed in there, with the forge lain handle up, or I can drill a hole in the side and have the heat spiral upward as it escapes. Which of course would mean I would have it sit shiny side down. I have yet to see a design like mine, google has nothing for me I have not read time and time again over the span of 4 years since I first took interest. I just came here to look for input from someone I hoped had more experience with gas than I.

I need advice on how to finish the forge itself. I welded up a basic shape, and it's a box, has a handle and even a door. The issue is that I need to drill a hole for the torch head itself. Any thoughts?

My tools are in a shop, my armoring/forging will be at my home. I cannot armor at the shop as the hours are limited and they would not appreciate it (OSHA and other safety things as well could be a problem in the shop). I know the general idea of a press but I have no idea what kind of shapes would work for what. A quick M$ paint rough draft of dies would be nice if anyone cares to make one. I'm guessing a ball with a same sized ball depression in the bottom is one, and perhaps a bar with a bar size cut out would make flutes? I've never really used a press, occasionally we use one in shop but it's not for things like this.

A press eh? I am a machinist and possess all the tools and machinery to make something like that during shop hours. Do you have a rough sketch? I'm not quite grasping the concept of the dies you talk about. Yes, this is about armor mostly with a few other sheetmetal misc. items mixed in. If you can suggest shapes and sizes for dies I will try my hand at making a few and we will see. The noiseless part intrigues me highly.

SLOB: Thanks for the ideas. My "anvil" is a 8" x 3" x 1" block of steel with 4 1/4-20 holes tapped in it. Thanks for the info Glenn, but I was kind of hoping for more contact info, there is none on the site, maybe so I could confer with the smith by email. There is an admission fee and I don't want to waste a trip because of the fee as well as the distance and time it would take if you know what I mean.