Ne0spartan

As for US makers:

 

Traditional:

Louis Mills of Michigan

 

Modern:

Howard Clark of Iowa

 

 

The two above are top of the trade with more time making them than most have in the craft.

....then everybody else you see online.

 

Ric

Thanks for the info I will look into them.

Rick Barrett, a most excellent smith.

 

Rick has informed me, that due to medical issues he is no longer taking blade orders, but will sell things he has made as they become available

Give Rick my best wishes, I hope he does better.

For 3K you could take several classes and make your own blade.

 

Someone needs to put JPH's name in the mix. See atar.com

Well I would if I didn't need the sword a bit sooner than 20 years from now and if I wanted to become a professional blade smith. I need it for a Japanese martial art and it needs to be of a better quality than I can hope to make before I am forty.

I will look at the website that you posted.

glenn's idea abou takin classes gets a +1 from me

Look at my response to Glenn.

I would add a vote for Howard clark  a wonderful craftsman.

2nd vote for Howard

Howard is the best in North America for japanese blades.

3rd vote for Howard

swordforum.com  has a ton of sharp pointy info

Will take a look at this website.

________________________________________

So so far the two main options that have received the most responses are 1) to purchase one from Howard Clark and 2) Learn to make one myself. I will look into Howard Clark and I have already listed why learning to make my own is not really on the table at this time.

Does anyone else have any other suggestions? Does anyone else have anything else to say about Louis Mills of Michigan or JPH of atar.com?

I am looking in the next two to five years to purchase a katana. I was hoping that you fellow members can help point me in the right direction in getting a real blade and not a 'wall hanger' as it were.

For those who are thinking to themselves "Here is another annoying kid who wants a magical sword for cheap," I do have $3000 stashed away for the purchase. I am reluctant to commit to anything for at least the next year as I am waiting to see if a job I am applying for will pan out.

~Ne0spartan

I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong, Ne0spartan, but I don't think Thomas is referring to a vertical forge (though they do exist). I think he means a temp-controlled heat treating kiln or furnace with a vertical chamber to prevent sag (warp).

Ah! That makes more sense. Can you tell me more about vertical forges?

@Thomas: So the nearly finished sword is placed into this kiln/furnace for final heat treating, with this special furnace being able to project different temperatures at different parts of the blade?

@Richard: For now I have been trying to keep the discussion in what many would consider the 'real world'  but your mentioning of beam based blades circumvents that. Remember this is just for fun and to challenge our creativity and  knowledge.

Okay how does this sound for a purely hypothetical challenge. Creation of a "heat" blade. Essentially a metal blade that is heated to high temperatures to assist in its cutting. Metal would need to be a alloy which will retain its qualities of sharpness and resilience at higher temperature.The blade would be heated either with electricity or though a chemical process. Application: Make sword that can cut through another sword like butter. Reason for Creation: Because it would be a challenge. Your thoughts on how to do it?

@ThomasPowers: I still want to hear more about this special forge :)

The methods were using a computerized, ramping, inert atmosphere electric furnace custom built for swordmaking---it had a vertical bore so swords could be suspended vertically and so not sag when soaking at temps.

Note that one of the "tricks" of heat treating blades is that the *books* and *charts* are based on 1"sq cross sections, blades tend to be *MUCH* smaller in cross section and so you have to take that in account when planning the process.

Interesting, I really like this concept. So this special forge was used for the final heat treating or the entire process of making the swords?

Ne0spartan, if you're really interested in Japanese style bladesmithing, Murray Carter hosts classes of all types from his forge, and is the 17th generation Yoshimoto Master Bladesmith.  He's also an American Bladesmith Society Master Smith. 

 

I'm not trying to take anything from anyone here (there's some amazingly knowledgeable and helpful smiths on this site), but if you really want to take it to the "bleeding edge", and you're gonna have to shell out some big bucks on equipment and training, and get way more dedicated than prodding some old curmudgeons on the interwebs.  That being said... Murray's probably the guy you want to get up with.  

 

Unless your pockets are as deep as an art knife collector's, and your expertise as expansive as a mastersmith's ... it's probably best to keep it simple.  Not trying to put you, nor your enthusiasm down bud, I'm just saying the nuances of the finer points of heat treating O1 tool steel are more than most want to tackle, or really have the capability to do.  The highest quality steel isn't worth any more in the scrap bin than 5160.  Just sayin.

As I have stated before the Katana was just an easy example to start the discussion not the end point. Though the information about the sword smith is helpful and I will look at . 

@Everyone: This is just a place to throw ideas around and not even a planning stage. I put forth a hypothetical sword design that has been floating around my head in order to get everyone's creative brain juices flowing. I am not going to go out and try to make this sword as like Kearnach said I would need deep pockets and I will admit  I don't have those (yet ;) ). Plus I want to just build up to other ideas and concepts that are truly bleeding edge but this discussion so far hasn't moved enough forward for that.

I spent a year once working with a professional swordmaker who's Father was a research Metallurgist; he used high alloy monosteels with high tech heat treating equipment to get the best from the alloys.

I understand about heat treating. My father worked at a steel mill as a metallurgist and my grandfather worked as a blacksmith at the same steel mill repair shop, he eventually became the head blacksmith there (unfortunately that mill has been mostly shutdown). Working metal seems to be in my blood which is why I am here. That we can get so much just from changing the temperature that a metal is exposed to in one area is astounding and should not be looked down upon. Can you go into more details about the methods used?

@Everyone: Remember steel is just a starting place before we get into more exotic materials; don't just focus on it but if you have constructive imput then please post it.

@Both: Like I have said the Katana was only an example of a sword with multiple parts. The Chinese have been doing the same thing for at least 3 thousand years, starting with their double edged bronze swords which would have a core/edge bronze of higher tin content sandwiched between two layers of bronze with a lower tin content (they were also the first to use chromium to treat a metal).

@Basher: I understand that European blades have been thrown under the bus in regards to modern preference for the Katana. And from what I have studied a well made European Blade from the late 1500's would easily been as good as quality as well made Katana. Also the reason for the flex is to prevent the cracking in the first place; make it bend in like a reed in the strong wind instead of shatter like a tall tree (or something along those lines).

@ThomasPowers: The term best blades refers to the blades that were made the best and not just munitions blades; it has nothing to do with what type or specific way they were used. I understand that different styles/types of blades are better at different tasks; a straight blade is better than a saber for thrusting but the saber is better at slashing, a short thrusting blade is better in a shield wall then a long cutting blade but the long cutting blade is better for one on one fighting, and the list goes on and on. There is no perfect fits all situations blade but that is not what I was trying to do here.

-------

All in all I would say that this is getting off to a good start (at least no one is outright attacking me :P) and you both have given very good points without making me feel stupid :D . So lets again look at my idea but focus down some more specifically on the style of blade being made.

So a straight singled edged (except for 3 inches near the tip which is sharpened for thrusting) backsword that has a blade under three feet with a handle that can be used with both hands if necessary. It would have a hard yet durable alloy for the edge metal (I am still open to a carbon steel for this as it is the best steel for holding an edge I personally know). And then I was thinking of using maraging steel for the core and a mangalloy steel for the skin steel.

Remember the goal is to push the sword tech to the bleeding edge (similar to the cutting edge but even more advanced).

Okay I made a bad pun with the title so sue me :P

What I want to look at here is information about modern technology and techniques that can be applied to sword smithing. This is just a theoretical idea thread not a "I am going to go make it now" thread so don't get agitated and attack me okay. I just want to tickle people's creativity and have a little fun, if we can actually come up with a usable concept then its a bonus. I though about posting this somewhere else on the forums but this was still the best to do so in.

The first idea I want to look at is...
 

Making a "Modern" metal blade.

Okay so what do I mean about making a "Modern" metal blade. Well I mean a blade that takes advantage of the wonderful modern alloys that have been developed.

The meat and bones of my idea though revolves around a concept found in the best blades, different parts. I am going to use the very basic example (basic in that most people who have exposure to swords should/might know this) of the Japanese Katana as a starting point, specifically the Honsanmai assembly method.

Assembly structure

With the Honsanmai  assembly method you have a hard steel edge, a soft steel for the core, and medium steel for the skin.

Please view the diagram to see the specific assemble structure...

So instead of just using steels that have a varied content of carbon I was wondering about using a larger variety of steel alloys or not using steel altogether. Using a metal that holds a good edge in place of the edge steel, using a more malleable metal in place of the skin steel, using a metal that has good flex in place of the core steel, etc... Is this a understandable concept?

A starting concept

So to start things off the design that has been floating around in my head would be to have a hard yet durable alloy for the edge metal, I am still open to a carbon steel for this as it is the best steel for holding an edge I personally know. And then I was thinking of using maraging steel for the core and a mangalloy steel for the skin steel.

Any thoughts on these materials or other materials that might be better?

make a solid steel stamp, and weld it to a piece of quarter inch plate(we'll call this the stamp plate). then make a double of what you just made as a stamp except everything is in and not out (hope it makes sense) (we'll call this the double plate). i dont know how your vice are set up but make it where the stamp plate is on the solid side, the part that doesnt move. then place your double plate on the part that moves. then just place your sheet steel between and crank. its a crude fix when you dont have a press but it works the same way, then just cut it out, and repeat the last bit. and viola youve got a way to massproduce these scales. if you are not a machinist yourself, find one in your area and pay him to do the stamps. after the stamps are made, depending on how quickly you could make the armor with all the scales there, you could whip these out fairly quickly.

theringlord.com

Sorry it took so long ... we rarely get non-rainy days in BC so I have been taking the opportunity to work on my shop. I hope this helps you.

brad

If it were me I would have the supplier shear the straight cuts then,(using a template) I would trace and cut the curved bottom.20g is really thin so it deforms easily.You could chisel out a form into the end grain of a dishing stump and make your die from wood as well.Then place your blank into the form set your die atop it and whack it with a mallet.Just be sure to drill/punch your holes before dishing.

I will type out a detailed explanation on how I make dies for rubber pressing tomorrow after work. I re-drew, from memory, a simple hydraulic press which I used, several years ago, to press large batch decorative copper light switch plates for some custom homes. This press could be made in a few hours and is reasonably cheap. If you are interested in building it I can finish dimensioning and annotating it by the end of this weekend.

brad

May I commend to your attention armourarchive.org a set of forums dedicated to making medieval and renaissance armor (and yes they use the British spelling: armour in the URL) Probably a much better match for your question than a blacksmithing forum.

Do you have access to a hydraulic press? if so you could rubber press the parts into the desired shape. Once the tooling is made it would be a matter of a few hours to complete the process. The time to the finished product would depend on how the flash is trimmed from the final part; if you cut them with a pair of aviation snipes it would take longer than if you make a trimming die . Short run dies for rubber pressing are relatively easy to produce. brad

Well gosh, two months! Even just cutting them with tin snips and raising them with a chisel on a stump they shouldn't be more than two days work! 100 pieces is EASY! Get thee to the shop man!

I just took another look at the scales in the pics, I see that the design is slightly different than what I wanted. They have more of a X raising pattern instead of the Y that I thought it was.

Which do you think would be better?

what is the time period and what is the question? Any chance of posting a Pic of your doco?

Hello to all smiths out there :)

I am making a suit of armor (about 45% complete) and I need to make a particular type of scales for the shoulder guards.

Below is the design that I have attempted to create based off of pictures that I found of particular set of scale armor that I like.

The different colors represent different angles that the metal would be bent at. I am planing on using a 20 gauge mild steel as this armor won't be used for 'heavy' fighting.

I need to make at least 100 of these with each scale being as similar as possible and I have only two months to finish the shoulder guards.

Any help/ideas would be appreciated.



~Ne0spartan

hmmm... I don't think that there are any bogs near where I live.

I will look into both options thank you.

Hello all as the title suggests I am a newbie smith from the North West United States. I stumbled upon your site looking for ways of obtaining ore for smelting. At this time I only have an anvil and some hammers to my name but I hope to make my own forge and foundry someday.

Hello everyone, just a new member who is new to smithing who has a simular question to Jason.

I am also looking for a source of iron ore but I need one that is located close to Washington State.


~Andrew