Zsartell

From what I have seen, for $2000 it should be in quite good repair with minimal extra work required. I know of around 4 25 pounders for sale for $1000 or less, but they all need quite a bit of work to get to what would be considered good running condition.

Sask Mark, I'd love to know more info on these 4 hammers for less than $1000. Do you know who and where?

I did a breakdown of how I forge and heat treat a center punch on my wife's blog. When I get a chance I'll post the whole thing here, but for now here is the link. I hope you enjoy it.

http://ironoakfarm.blogspot.com/2011/01/fiery-friday-making-center-punch.html

OK, I know this is kind of a strange topic, but does anyone know where I can find suspenders with anvils on them. I have seen them before and my hours of searching on the internet have come up with nothing. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, we need pictures and video!

Anyone got any suggestions for jigging for bolt tongs?

I love this tool.

I would think you could easily use this jig for the basic form and setup another one to form just the bolt holding end. Perhaps you could make the original jig have a detachable piece that once the basic jaw is formed it can be removed and the bolt jig put in it's place. That waw everything else for the jaw section still lines up the same.

- I need to build a power hammer so I can test this....

Wow, you did a great job on that hammer KTB. I really like the ratchet and oil can holder. I need to start scrounging for my tire hammer.

How does it perform for you?

I've never owned a plasma cutter, but I have used a few different brands. The nice ones (hypertherm) cut pretty decent and the cheapo's cut so bad I would have rather used an oxy/acetylene torch. That doesn't mean that there aren't less expensive plasma cutters out there that can't do the job, just not the couple that I have used.

double_edge2,

What kind of power hammer is the one you posted. I can see that it has a home made cylinder, but can't really make out the plumbing.

I think it would make a better hydroulic press than a hammer. It sure looks beastly enough...

I really like the idea of using cheap tubing and greased rope seals. It wouldn't be that hard to mock up the basic operation with scrap pipe, wood, greased rope and junk steel. It wouldn't need to be all that strong as long as you didn't plan on beating anything with it. You could even run the motor on a dimmer switch and keep the RPM's low and once you get the valving close, crank it up unit destruction.

Ordinarily, I am a big proponent of mechanichal hammers...Interesting thread, but if you are serious, build a small air hammer. Small, 'cause it will still be faster and easier than hand hammering, Small because you will not need as much air to run it, small because the materials will be MUCH cheaper and more readily available. Forget the self-contained fantasy till you are in a position to persue it.

Honestly, I opened this discussion more for discussion for future reference. I really plan on building a "Tire Hammer" and maybe doing research/experimentation with the self contained hammers. I'd really like to have a good air hammer someday, but I don't have a good air compressor and I can build a tire hammer for pretty cheap right now.

This subject has come up several times, so I did the work for you.The drawings are thanks to Frosty who pointed them out on another thread . http://www.google.com/patents?id=lF5kAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=patent+707246&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q=patent%20707246&f=false.

I don't know if there to scale and didn't read any of the text but it doesn't look that complicated. like I said the subject comes up allot and I haven't seen any follow through. I hope you go for it and share all your findings. Btw I read somewhere I guy named Mark Krause wrote a manual on building self contained hammers I don't know if their still available.

I found Mark Krause's e-mail and have asked him for info on his book he wrote. If I find anything out I'll let everyone know.

Oh, I also wanted to say that a self contained hammer reminds me of a Free Piston Engine. They both work off of cushions of air to move a straight shaft back and forth. There is another project to add to the list....

Agreed....

I agree as well. Unfortunately, I am in a bit of a financial crisis and every penny I have needs to go to my bills (medical bills, I'll be moving soon-unwillingly among other things). If I was a full time smith I would say that a power hammer of some sort would be an absolute necessity. Since I now have a typical 9-5, it's hard to justify it at this moment in my life. Quite honestly I should just buckle down and do it. I could get a lot more work done and get better profits for my time. Perhaps I could even go full time. I completely agree that to make money you have to have the right tools. Some of my products were under priced and I have raised my prices recently to justify the work being done. The fun thing is that the higher prices haven't really slowed things down much. Maybe I'll just raise prices again and start saving for those right tools to make more money.

Thanks for the awakening...

Another thing I'd like to get more info on is "does it run well enough to bother creating one". Yes there have been some people out there that had made their own self contained hammers, but how do they perform compared to the commercial models? I know that it is more than possible to recreate the effectiveness of lets say a Nazel, but would you have to recreate the more complex valving or could you get by with something simple like what Patrick Pelgrom came up with. I just found the valve diagram for his hammer on Anvil Fire and it looks rather simple to me and similar to what I had in mind. I could see where you could easily add a couple of more adjustments that could help with the tuning (whether they'd help or not I don't know, but the more adjustment the better in my opinion). Personally I don't have the patience or tools to create complex rotary valves (at least right now) that could increase performance, but perhaps it really isn't needed anyway. I'd really like to hear from some guys that have build these hammers and their thoughts of how they compare to similar sized commercial models.

Perhaps Double_edge2 could chime in here. I'll PM him/her
Calling all Self Contained Hammer Makers! Let's hear your thoughts... That should do it...

(I'm such a dork)

I've been looking for the ratio answer also. I like the basic design of Pelgoms hammer I will be building mine out of 1 1/2" plate for the body 20" round for the anvil but I don't want to start on it till I figure out the ratio on the cylinders. I think the reason for a larger compressor cylinder is to help in the exchange of fresh air to help desipate heat. thats just my thought though. I do have two cylinders off of air acuated knife valves one is 10" the other is 16" in diameter, that is a big ratio but I think I can make a shorter stroke on the compressor cylinder and be ok its just how much thats holding me back.

Philip,

Wow, it looks like you have a good start anyway. I am a firm believer that the bigger the anvil the better. One thing I would consider (and correct me if I read this wrong) is if you only use lets say 50% of the stroke of your compression cylinder the the unused empty space will work against you. Air compresses and that unused space will slow your hammer speed down by taking up the "ummph" that the compressor supplies it. Perhaps you could physically cut down the length of the compressor if it gives you problems. I would say that if you are willing to do that then you have all you need and could start long and keep cutting off until you get it right. If I were you, I'd find the length and diameter of each the compressor and hammer of some commercial hammers and go from there. If you get enough numbers of varying hammer weights, dump that into an excel spreadsheet you should be able to get more than close enough. I do see your idea about dissipating the heat though. I would think that some aluminum cooling fins on the cylinders and piping would help out there. Scrap aluminum is not that hard to find and you could cast some fins that bolted right to the cylinders.

Where is this hammer located?

I have been reading some of the posts here and elsewhere about building a self contained hammer. I once thought this would be an impossible beast to create in ones garage, but after seeing the one made by Patrick Pelgrom over at anvil fire I've come to think it could be an interesting project. I have a huge need for a power hammer in my shop as I just can't keep up with orders and I feel like I am destroying my body more and more. Ultimately I am going to build a "Tire Hammer" with an adjustable tup similar to a little giant (I'll save that for another thread), but the challenge of building a self contained hammer is intriguing. Knowing that I have very little spare time and almost no spare money right now, I thought it would best just to talk about it or experiment cheaply. One thing I thought might be fun is getting a hold of a couple of small pneumatic or hydraulic cylinders and running some tests with scrap around the garage. From what I can tell most commercial units have a compressor slightly larger in diameter than the hammer. What I haven't found is any mention of the ratio of volume. I can understand that the diameter should be the same, but in Patrick Pelgroms' unit the compressor cylinder looks to be a lot shorter than the hammer cylinder. This would decrease the overall volume of air that transferred from cylinder to cylinder. I would think that they would need to be the same length and volume to work properly and deliver a full blow (unless inertia gets the hammer to the end of it's stroke). (caution: epiphany coming)OK, that might make sense as the chamber for the down stroke would need some sort of valve to let more air in when there is negative pressure in the chamber. When the compressor has reached the end of it's stroke and the hammer is still on it's way down via inertia, the valve would open and allow the hammer to keep moving downward. Then the compressor would have flipped it's direction anyway and the valve would stay open while the compressor traveled down and pushed the hammer back into it's up position using the lower chamber. I guess if this is how it works as far as the length of the compressor goes, you'd just need to be somewhere between not long enough (that would change depending on a number of variables, but I'd say 3/4 of the way would be close enough) and the same length as the hammer cylinder (simple right, don't worry I have no idea what I just said). With the correct valve tuning you should be able to get it to run well as long as you are within these variables (not considering hammer weight). I would want to try an over sized compressor with a shorter stroke but the same (slightly larger) volume than the hammer (perhaps this is overkill). It seems like it would be easier to manage the crankshaft of the shorter cylinder anyway. But would you loose torque necessary to keep the compressor up to speed? Huh... No, that really shouldn't be a big deal as long as the motor is up to it. To deal with hammer weight, this is where studying commercial hammers and bench top experimenting with some small cylinders and junk piping might become very helpful. For the most part these experiments should not require any machining of intricate parts, but just fab work and creativity. Some ball valves, copper tubing, check valves, pressure release valve, old cylinders, some weight for the hammer and some sort of rig to hold it would probably do the trick. All I'd need is to see the action and get some numbers. Then scaling it up should not be too big of a problem. I scaled up a Hiller/Lockwood pulse jet (a lot) by experimenting and number crunching, this shouldn't be too much different. Although now that I remember that project took me a couple of years.....

I must be crazy

The only thing I machined was the hole in the 3/8" rod. Everything else was forged and filed. This is one of the simpler designs. He couldn't afford the more complicated ones.

Hello all,

I thought that everyone would like this. I made this replica teeth pulling device for a Pirate Surgeon Re-enactor. It is called a Dental Pelican and I could see how it would work really well. It was a fun project.

Here is my mostly completed treadle hammer. All I need to do now is find a turnbuckle and finish making all of the linkage from the hammer to the treadle. It's coming along nicely so far. I haven't really come across any real problems so far. I can't wait to get this thing done so I can start making tooling for it.

I thought since I was out of work I'd have this done by now, but I didn't anticipate getting married to be so much work. Now that we have most of the wedding plans and chores (cutting down trees to make room for the tent, doing years of neglected maintenance to the in-laws house, etc...) done I have been spending my mornings forging and working on my treadle hammer.

I now have most of the lower half complete and am working on the support system for the hammer itself. Once that is complete I can get it mounted (which should be easy) and start on all of the linkage to make it move. I can't wait. I have a list of tools I want to make for it and a long list of things to make with all the new tools.

I always seem to need to make more and more tools. Sometimes I think making the tools is my favorite part.

Hey that anvil is just down the road from me. Not sure that I'd pay $100 for it though....

It looks like it has been well used for someone at least. Too bad it's in such bad shape.

I'd give him $40 for it....

Here is a picture if the final product. My client has since received this key and she loves it.

OK, it's pretty much been forever since I started this treadle hammer, but since I lost my job recently due to "Budget cuts" I am going to try and get this thing done. Here are a few more not so interesting pictures of my recent progress.