abrasive

Great work, and way to get after it!

Couple of tips for you, then:

Mix the satanite to a consistency about like pancake batter. Helps it go on without balling up the wool. You can miss on the thick side and the thin side a bit and not have problems with this stuff. Spray the wool lightly with water before you put the coating on. It keeps the wool from soaking the water out of the coating, which leads to cracks and poor adhesion.

When you get to the ITC, a little water goes a long way and will make a big difference in its consistency. It's much pickier than the satanite. (For me, anyway. Must be because it's so expen$ive.) If you get too much water the stuff will separate out on you, FAST, and it's miserable. Too thick is unusable, too. Keep the stuff stirred. Even with the right amount of water, it likes to separate.

Have fun!
Dave

Coat it before you fire it.

After the ceramic fiber is fired, it gets a LOT nastier as far as the dust it will shed and what it will do to you. There are some technical terms for it, but they don't readily spring to mind.

Dave

Any chance for some more pictures and a few measurements.

Sorry for the delay.

Sure, no prob. What do you want pictures of?

On the dim's, it's pretty much a Batson H-frame (from the book) built on an 24"W x 18"D x 13.5"H base. Uprights are 3x5x0.25 angle, throat is 10"W. Changed the ram to use 1" plate (10"W x 8"H) for guides, pinned and bolted so that I could disassemble for rework if needed. I can dig up my drawings (or a tape measure, LOL) if you want more dims - no prob.

Dave

I've bought and used ITC-100 from three vendors (never from Ellis, though) and it looked the same every time: brownish, lumpy and separating from an oily-looking brown liquid. It was always in an ITC container.

I've never seen it whitish until it's been fired and cured!

HTH,
Dave

The biggest problem with the bottom push is height.

I ripped this text today to reply to the same question from another guy, and I see that I should have said "The biggest problem with the TOP push is height."

I was indeed going to go shopping for an ell to tuck that conduit in closer to the frame. I salvaged that stuff from a bunch we pulled out at work years ago - it's the good stuff with spiral metal lining - not a bad idea around hot metal. Glad I finally found a use for some of it.

I could drop that lever quite a bit, for sure. I don't know why I thought I needed it so high. So many little things you learn on press #1... And I haven't even used it on hot metal yet! That top die holder is going to be nice and easy to use, but it needs a pair of stops at the back instead of just the one in the middle. They could even be integral with the shelves.

Thanks for the comments!

Dave

Thanks for the kind words!

On the bottom-push topic: I went back and forth on that. I really wanted to build a top-push just because that seems more intuitive. On the other hand, I had been using a bottom-push press I built from a 20 ton air-over-hydraulic, and you get used to it very quickly.

The biggest problem with the bottom push is height. I didn't just put the pump and motor underneath to save on footprint, although it certainly did. (Hard footprint on this is about 24x30 including reservoir - add a bit for hoses and conduit) Look at the Batson H-frame plans (that was my starting point) or the McNabb press (also based on Batson) - the die height is too low in my opinion. I am 6'2". So many pictures I see of guys running presses have them bent over with their heads cocked, trying to eyeball the work. I have neck problems and hanging my head over like that would kill me in short order. The way I am going to use this press, I want the work right there in front of me. Some guys want their dies at an anvil-like height. Definitely a plus if you do heavy work. Mostly what I will be doing is making damascus and other blade-related work, so the pieces are relatively light. The control lever falls to hand easily while I am standing erect, and the work gets handled with my left hand as if I was forging. (I run with my forge on my left and my anvil on my right so my left hand does all the work handling)

To do a top pusher with the die height I wanted would have made the press well over 7' tall - close to 8' IIRC. Too tall to get out the roll-up door on my shop, (heck the ceiling is only 8') and also top-heavy. And top-heavy for no great reason - there would have been upright length in there that served no purpose but to raise the die height. This design, to me, is cleaner - there's no real wasted space to speak of - and I like clean.

The other thing that swayed me is that I am not thrilled with the idea of the cylinder right in front of my face. It can be shielded, though. This one is going to need shields, at least to keep scale away from the hoses, cylinder and filler cap. Work in progress. Working on a foot control, too.

A couple more pics to show the general arrangement. Pardon the, um, mess.





Dave

Finally built myself a press. 5" cylinder, 16/3.5 GPM pump running at 1740, so cut that in half. I am very happy with the speed.

Here's a pic:



Fired it up and all the oil stayed on the inside. I've stress tested to 2500 PSI so far (about 24.5 tons) with nary a creak. Probably leave it there for a while.

Now to plop it in a permanent spot and build some dies!

Dave

It lives! Fired it up last night, and all the oil stayed inside!

After all the round and round about the valve, I still managed to connect it backward. I am special. I now see that running the press that way would not be a lot of fun. So, I got to spill a little oil swapping them.

This thing is going to be fun! Pics coming hopefully tonight.

Dave

LOL!! AND its always a good idea to wipe the said lip contact area off to avoid experiencing new and not always pleasant taste sensations. BTW, Abrasive, another silly question; Was there an instruction sheet packaged with the valve??

You have NO idea how many times I looked at that sheet to see if the info was there, heh.

I did the blow into it thing - it works as I described above.

There is indeed sealant. Nice of them to put that there. Must be to keep warehouses from turning into superfund sites - there's oil in there, too. Man those 3/4 plugs were TIGHT. And 5/8" allen?? I don't have a 5/8 allen - had to bodge one up by jamming some nuts on a bolt and using that. Worked.

Very, very close to the smoke test on this one! I'll get pics up once I know it's not going to dismantle itself.

Dave

Ha! I love it.

I was actually thinking about doing that with compressed air. Didn't want to blow the shipping/preservative oil all over me, the shop, etc. I like your tool-free low-pressure approach!

It's the simple things...

Thanks,
Dave

Building a 24-ish ton h-frame. Silly question, but I'd really rather plumb this beast only once.

With a 4-way valve like this http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_37216_37216&issearch=2010 ...

When the lever is moved away from center, how do I know which work port will receive flow? Is it the one opposite the lever motion? I.e. whichever way the linked plunger moves?

So, referring to the picture, if I had the valve mounted with the flag upright - would moving the lever UP (which pushes the plunger IN) activate port B?

Related Q: On a bottom-pusher press, do you guys set up the lever to be up for squish (ram motion) or down for squish (more intuitive to me - maybe - have not run one yet)? Down squish makes for a simpler foot pedal linkage...


Thanks much,
Dave

Manchester is a fantastic town. It was the cornerstone of the industrial revolution and there's history everywhere you turn.

Did you get over to the Museum of Science and Industry? What an amazing collection.

Dave

You said "bigger is better" so here's one that just surfaced in the Salt Lake City area.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=9736893&cat=96&lpid=

Love to see pics of the actual press in question.

Dave

Thanks for the input!

It's looking more and more like a rebuild is in order. I have learned a thing or two since I built the current beastie.

Not sure which version is in Mike's book, but that is the one I have. It gets plenty hot. At 1920 - 2000 I am at 4-6 PSI. I can easliy get to 2300 and hotter. I didn't want to burn up my K thermocoupler so that was as hi as I ran it.

Last time I talked to Mike which was maybe 2003-4, he said something about writing a book on soidering and being able to soider glass to metal. It was quite awhile ago so maybe I remember that wrong.

Yeah, I think I need to stop screwing around for the last 1% and just get the thing built. Or things. Think I am going to build a pair to replace my single Reil EZ. If I can't weld with that then I just need to give it up.

Thanks for the info, Devil Dog.

Dave

I'm re-working a forge I built many years ago. It's been great for general forging, but I want to start welding and it's just not hot enough here at altitude. (Salt Lake area)

The forge body is 8" pipe, 17" long. Two layers of 1" Kaowool all the way around, and a piece of kiln shelf on the bottom. Net inside diameter is, taking into account the non-round shape, about 5.5". So we're looking at around 404 in3. I made a little movable wall out of satanite-and-itc100'd kaowool. Oh, and ITC-100 on the Kaowool, though that needs to be re-coated.

Single 3/4 "Reil EZ burner dead center, i.e. 8.5" from each end at about 10:00 pointed in so the flame hits the wall and swirls. If I were doing this over, I'd place it closer to the front - that's where all the heat goes. The back stays pretty toasty.

I am looking at two improvements: adding a second burner, Porter-type, and upgrading the old burner to a Porter-type.

My burner holder is 1.5" pipe welded into the forge body. Really not looking to cut it off and move it. I am thinking of adding another burner between the existing burner and the front - maybe 4" OC from the existing burner. Is that too close? Can I go closer? I really don't want the additional burner right in my lap... Or should I bite the bullet and move them both? Or just weld up a new forge body - I think I have the cutoff from that 8" pipe around here somewhere...

I've already plumbed ball valves for each burner, so I can run them individually. Same pressure to both, though.

Any advice welcome!

Thanks,
Dave

I forgot the biggest difference. Rex burners come ready to run and you'll have to build a Porter.

That's a lot more significant than it sounds, Mike spends close to a day building one of his type 5s.

Frosty

What type/gen is in his book?

I am currently using a Reil EZ that I built years ago. Looking at an upgrade to Mike's 3/4" from the book, but seriously considering using the lathe and mill to do something cleaner. But without screwing it up.

Just wondering if there are any improvements I should be incorporating. I'm also back-and-forth-ing on putting in a taper to the tube, a la Rex.

Thanks,
Dave
(First post here - can't believe I just found this place!!!)