wow thanks guys i did not realise you are all a propper friendly bunch thanks for all the replys our first project is two small skinning knifes for me mum she is a butcher (so they will get a good test!!) we are trying with two sections cut out of my mates old golf g60 brake disks!! these have been heated all day in my workshop stove at about 800'c and are cooling slowly then once soft we will form a blade harden then temper will let you know how we get on