Mainely,Bob

I ALWAYS use the 3P method;Proper Prior Planning.

Step 1-
Wait a minute,I used to know what step one was.
Hold on while I find the book(mutter,mutter).
HONEY,DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT BOOK ON PLANNING WENT?
Let me get back to you on this...(wanders off looking for book and muttering)
;)

Take alittle time and do the research and you`ll find that there have been advances made that bring the old FCAW up to as good as or surpassing SMAW for the appropriate applications.
It`s well worth the little extra money you may pay buying wire from a welding supply house with access to their tech support as opposed to buying whatever the local building supply has laying on the shelf with zero tech support or advice.
welding wire on spools must meet the same standards as stick or Tig.You can get spec sheets from Lincoln or Hobart(the big 2 up here)that give specs on yield and tensile strengths as well as approx. wire speed and voltage just like you can for stick or Tig filler.
You could even go to Lincoln and look up the specs for that small spool you just bought at the "Borg" as they usually stock lincoln products.I think you`ll find that the straight flux core(no gas) from HD or Lowe`s is equal to 6010 SMAW (stick) at least up here it is.

A good place to start is the Crucible Service Center site.
They have spec sheets you can print and even a special section on knife making steels.

The reason I asked about the handles is that some folks make them too short.The longer the better within reason.
Better control comes from having a 3 point contact at all times.You need to be contacting the rest(both pin and crossbar) have a firm but relaxed grip(like forging with a hand hammer)and good contact between the handle and your body(upper thigh,hip or slightly above).
You probably already know this but a smooth surface and flowing curve come from pushing with your body not your hands and arms alone.
Even on smaller or detail tools having a longer handle adds momentum and helps smooth out your movement and make things flow instead of jerk.it also helps to dampen vibration.
It also helps to keep moving the rest as close to the work as you can.Think about adjusting the rest between pushes,make leverage work for you instead of against.

My apologies if I`m stating stuff you already know.

One of the tricks the old timers used up here to improve performance of flat belts was to sprinkle a little diatom powder on the running belt.The same trick helps on a wood to metal clutch assembly.
You can find diatom earth(powder)at most well stocked pool or spa supply stores.
I like it better than that sticky goo they call belt dressing.May as well sell that to make fly paper with.

Most chatter can be traced to lack of support for either the work or the tool.One or the other of them are being pushed and/or flexing out of the cut.
As I`m sure you have realized support is one of the keys to successful metal spinning.If the metal is not supported by either the form or a backer stick then it wants to distort and buckle.The same forces are at work when trimming.
When trimming early on(that uneven edge makes you nervous doesn`t it)you are creating a line where one end is the last point of solid contact with the form and the other is the cutting tool.When that line is too long the metal flexes and the cut chatters.I try to make that line as short as possible by using my backer as close to the cut as I can and still be safe.
Quick question,how long are the handles on your tools?

I read info on the WWing forums that many of the old rasps were just case hardened mild steel.
Anyone else have any info on this?

Andrew,

traditionally these joints were a dovetail not a box joint and the dovetails were peened to lock them solid.The dovetails were hand cut or cut on a milling machine using a dovetail cutter.
I`d like to suggest you do more research on some of the woodworking forums as making an infill plane is a rather involved project and things can go badly wrong rather quickly and you end up with either an unuseable plane or one that is such a pain to use it sits on a shelf.
You can see details of the joints at sites such as Carl Holtey`s,Wayne Anderson`s,or the Saur and Stiener sites among others.

Best of luck

I suppose there are actually 3 different approaches.
1-do the math
2-use jigs,patterns and layout tools
3-trust your eye/experience and just wing it

I agree that it would be extremely handy to have these formulas in one place here.
It would free me from having to remember where I last put my pipe fitting,tin knocking and machinery handbooks. :)

I`m somewhat puzzled as to why these spikes would have a double head on them.
The modern use of a duplex nail or scaffold nail needs 2 heads.The first ridge or head does what a normal nail head does and that is to press the mating surfaces of both timbers in close contact to each other and keep them there.The second head is there so that you can easily extract the nail without having to use something like a "catspaw" to dig into the face of the timber and get under the head to extract.Modern manufacturing techniques make it easy to head these nails like this.
It would further complicate the relatively simple process of making a standard spike to forge that double head.Seems like it would require upsetting and then more hammer work.
Keep in mind that the folks who were on the receiving end of these were criminals and enemies of the state.Once the person had expired I don`t think the folks retrieving the spikes were worried about how much damage they did retrieving those spikes.Whatever implement was used for their retrieval was probably just hammered in just like a catspaw and the spike pulled.
I can`t imagine the state would go to the extra trouble to make double headed spikes so they wouldn`t damage the body of a person they just crucified.
Just because 1 spike has evidence of something that might be an extra ridge doesn`t mean every spike was forged that way.If there were more recovered spikes and they all had that same evidence then someone would have a case for stating that all crucifixion spikes were specially forged like that.
The nail was left in place supposedly because it hit a knot and could not be pulled out.Perhaps when they continued to drive the spike after contacting that knot an inclusion or some other fault caused this ridge to form due to internal failure.Who can say for sure?

I`m somewhat puzzled as to why these spikes would have a double head on them.
The modern use of a duplex nail or scaffold nail needs 2 heads.The first ridge or head does what a normal nail head does and that is to press the mating surfaces of both timbers in close contact to each other and keep them there.The second head is there so that you can easily extract the nail without having to use something like a "catspaw" to dig into the face of the timber and get under the head to extract.Modern manufacturing techniques make it easy to head these nails like this.
It would further complicate the relatively simple process of making a standard spike to forge that double head.Seems like it would require upsetting and then more hammer work.
Keep in mind that the folks who were on the receiving end of these were criminals and enemies of the state.Once the person had expired I don`t think the folks retrieving the spikes were worried about how much damage they did retrieving those spikes.Whatever implement was used for their retrieval was probably just hammered in just like a catspaw and the spike pulled.
I can`t imagine the state would go to the extra trouble to make double headed spikes so they wouldn`t damage the body of a person they just crucified.
Just because 1 spike has evidence of something that might be an extra ridge doesn`t mean every spike was forged that way.If there were more recovered spikes and they all had the same evidence then someone would have a case for stating that all crucifixion were specially forged like that.

If you`re going to be moving the tank around and disconnecting and reconnecting it then all soft copper may not be the best idea.Every time you bend the copper line you work harden it a little bit.After a time that soft copper becomes hard copper and will crack or break.
Some of the copper line out there is of questionable quality.The company who installed our oil furnace tried 3 times to flare the ends of the copper fuel line and each time it work hardened and cracked enough to seep fuel oil.The tech finally pulled a new coil of line and flared it no problem.He took a hammer to the first coil so his boss wouldn`t be tempted to send it back out with someone else.
Think about using the copper to plumb from the burners to a convenient point on the cart,like behind the forge,and then go with either approved rubber line covered with the TIG sleeve as suggested above or go with an industrial braided line from the cart to the tank.That way you won`t have to worry too much about what`s going to happen when someone either kicks the tank or bumps the cart.You are putting locking casters on the cart aren`t you?

There are only 2 circumstances when I will mess around with the fire.
1-If I`m alone
2-If I`m with somebody

No really,the only time I mess with the fire is to get it going or to throw some of that stuff in that makes the flames turn colors to entertain the grandkids(we have a window in the door and can see the fire).
We use the wood stove as our primary source of heat so it runs pretty much continuously from November till April so I guess I take it for granted.

Fooling with the fireplace?That`s just goofy.
If I want to fool with fire that`s what I have a forge for.Now that`s a fire!
We don`t need no stinkin` hairdryers.We got BLOWERS,haa,ha,ha,ha,haaaaa!
Quick Igor,bring the hammer!

Dry wall is not a good choice as it`s paper faced and very soft after the paper is removed.Not to mention the fact that it`s very easily broken once the paper covering is compromised.When you work it you score the top paper and then easily snap it right?

If you absolutely can`t make a sheet metal table or a sheet metal backer for a brick table like suggested above then steer clear of the drywall and at least use cement board or tile backing board instead,it`s a whole lot more stout than sheetrock.

I would look to some of the sculpture forums and sites for patina ideas.
There are a lot of patinas available for bronze sculpture and most of the companies that offer those also offer patinas for steel and iron too.

What are some of the techniques you folks use to keep one section of a piece from coloring while heating something such as this tang up to dull red or higher?
I used a wet rag once and it created a narrow differential zone I wasn`t happy with.
I`m having better luck using copper chill bars but wondered what others do.

I`d look online for the AWS site.
I`d be surprised if they didn`t post both what the certs consisted of and where in your area you could test.
As stated above there are a lot of different types of certifications and the way I got my first cert was to get the test standards for what I needed and then practice both at the job and at home.When I felt I was ready I went to the test site,paid my money and did my thing.
All the prep and practice was done by me on my own,only the test was supervised and graded.
Last time I did structural the grading consisted of 2 butt weldments both vertical and overhead.Plates came already chamfered,ready to tack.Weld rod was 7018.
The first test was a visual,if the inspector didn`t like it`s look you were a no-go.
Next test was cut a coupon and prep that coupon for testing.If there was any porosity or flux inclusions encountered during prep you were a no-go.
The third and final step was a bend test or x-ray.
Pretty simple for structural.Things get more difficult the higher up the ladder you climb.

Good luck to you.

Easy way to tell if you have cast iron or something else.

Place the weight on 2 pieces of wood(2X scrap laid flat works fine) so that the ends are supported but the center open.
Put your eye protection on.
Take a moderate size hammer and hit the center unsupported area of the weight with enough force to intend to slightly bend it.
If you snap it into 2 or more pieces it`s cast.
If it bends it`s something else.

I dislike Nordic hammers.
I find they make my arm Thor.

Sorry,I just couldn`t resist.I really tried but...

Now back to our normally scheduled program. :P

Arftist,

Glad your stove is working so well for you,I hope it continues to give you great service.

You are correct that sealing the cast stoves is a problem.That`s one of the drawbacks of cast components.As a single piece they`re great,try and join them to another and don`t allow for flex or movement and you run into problems.I suspect it`s ridgidity makes it difficult to play well with others even those of the same material.The trick is getting them to assemble properly and work together with no gaps,as with all things.
My father bought a top of the line Vermont Castings wood stove for the sole heating source for their home.He insisted on getting it roaring every morning and frequently had the sides glowing due to inattention.I was not surprised that the gaskets wore out and it leaked air everywhere.Niether was I surprised that the rear baffle plate was burned and cracked when I rebuilt it.That rebuilt stove is still going strong in a neighbor`s shop.Unlike my father Adriano listens to advise about how not to abuse fire related tools.The stove model is a Defiant,I thought it fit my father pretty well.Abuse will kill most anything no matter what it`s made of.
I replaced the Defiant with a new,more efficient steel stove that burns much cleaner and is easier for my wife to manage.She picked it out because it has a window in the front to see the flames.The new stove has an all steel welded body and only 2 cast parts,a floating plate in the bottom and the frame of the door is cast too.Me and the new stove get along fine and I have to admit it was a big improvement over the Defiant.

So Bigfish,what are you and Curly aiming for,about belt buckle height at the top of the dies?I`m wondering because I too am collecting parts for a tire hammer.
I was planning on either square tube if I can find it or pipe for the anvil upright.Do either of you think it would be worthwhile filling the anvil pipe with something? if so what do you suggest.

The only empirical evidence I have is that all the old cast fire pots I`ve seen have held up far better than the steel ones over time.I realize that many things can contribute to that but the results seem to speak for themselves.
The steel wood stoves I`ve owned,repaired and seen are more prone to weld cracking and distortion if they`re not lined than the unlined CI stoves both old and new especially if the fire gets out of hand.The steel stoves even have cast iron doors because they`re less prone to warp under heat.
When building a poorboy rivet forge most folks will go looking for a CI brake drum or rotor as opposed to grabbing steel from the scrap yard.
If welded steel fire pots are better then why are the bulk of manufactured fire pots still made from cast iron?Seems like a CI pot would be more costly to produce as opposed to a fabbed or drop forged steel one,especially with off shore labor.

As far as exhaust manifolds go.I have no idea why a CI manifold would burn out in 5 years perhaps it came off an import or was made offshore.Following that train of thought wouldn`t the CI heads burn out too.I can`t imagine the manifolds came off a motor with aluminum heads as I know aluminum melts or burns far sooner than cast does.(yes,I know they`re water cooled)
I can tell you that there are cars out of Detroit still sporting the stock CI manifolds going on 40+ years with no burn out.I myself have reworked fishing and work boats that are older than that and the CI manifolds last alot longer than the steel stacks they`re hooked up to.Before you blame it on corrosion,remember that most of these CI manifolds have salt water running thru them to help cool them.Most times they`re replaced because of salt and mineral build up in the jackets.
I have yet to see a set of welded steel headers last as long as a set of stock cast manifolds on any car either I or my buddies have hotrodded.We replaced the cast manifolds with headers for performance,not durability.

I know cast burns out,I`ve had to replace the cast burner on my grill after 10 years.I replaced it with a stainless burner and if that lasts 5 years I`ll be happy.We BBQ alot,My wife shovels snow in order to cook on the grill this time of year.To be fair,the new burner is made from what most would consider sheet metal but it still cost 75% of what I paid for the whole grill.If I could have bought a direct replacement cast burner I would have.

One of the reasons we have so many different materials available is because no single material does all things well.It`s always a compromise.There are reasons that exhaust manifolds are made from cast iron and then hooked up to welded steel tubing and not the other way round.Each has it`s own best application but it takes both to get the job done.
The forge I`m building for my son will have a free floating cast brake drum for a fire pot,steel pipe to the bottom and a steel clinker breaker and ash dump.The grate will be the spare CI drain grate I picked up as a replacement for my forge.These are the things that have proven to work best for me and I hope they hold true for my son.We`ll see.

On to Aral`s questions.Now that we know he will be using coke because it`s plentiful and free and doing only lite to medium work on a limited basis every few months I personally see no reason why he can`t do just fine with what he has planned to do.I would still caution against doing more than bolting the welded fire pot to the table and say that lining will increase the life of the pot.If his work habits change and he outgrows this forge I`m sure he`ll come back here for advice on building an upgraded one.
Good luck Aral,shout if you need more help.
Oh yeah,we expect pictures of the forge and your work.Once you figure that out then maybe you can help me figure out how to post my own.Without my youngest son around to help I`m lost in that regard.My wife wanted to be cropped out of the profile pic but I couldn`t figure how to do that either. :huh:

ptree,
If someone says it`s a safety violation to wear a hardhat turned around then he`s obviously never worked around riggers,welders or worked aboard a ship.
Having that bill in front obscures your view overhead,something a rigger needs to see in order to safely do his job.Other`s lives depend upon his clear view of the load path.
Having that bill in the back helps keep sparks from getting under your collar and going down your back if you`re a welder.Keeping the bill in front also means the welder now must make a choice between wearing the hat or the helmet as the helmet doesn`t flip down with the bill in front.
Working onboard a ship with the overhead crammed full of things like valves,cable hangers,etc means you need to be fully aware of what`s above you.See rigger paragraph for further explanation.

I know the safety guys have a hard job and take some real flac for problems not of their own making.I also think you folks have to expect to fade a little heat from the guys on the deckplates.
The way we see it,we KNOW management doesn`t listen to us.We KNOW we have to listen to you.We just feel that when you KNOW a safety reg or procedure is pure BS because you see it for yourself when we point it out then management should have to listen to you just like we have to.
Believe me brother,you`re not the only frustrated pup in the litter.

Arftist,

Everything`s debatable.
When I said cast was king I was speaking of it`s stability and durability when exposed to heat.I also took into account it`s resistance to oxidation and/or corrosion relative to steel.
Steel might be a better choice if your concerns are ease of fabrication and welding and you intended to line the fire pot and keep the forge under cover.
There are very good and sound reasons for not restricting yourself to only one material but use both where they each excell.
After burning out both steel and stainless grates in one of my forges I went with a cast iron drain grate and had no further trouble.
My intention was to illustrate that there were choices and to extract further information so we could move from generalizations into more constructive advise.To truly give the best suggestions to solve things for Aral in the best way possible for him I,and I assumed others needed more information.

I`d like to hear your side of the debate.I`m always willing to keep an open mind and aspire to never stop learning.I`m sure others would benefit from reading an objective view of both sides too.

Welcome to the forum,nice to see a husband and wife team here.
I look forward to reading your posts and seeing your work.You`re bound to like it here,everybody`s very friendly and helpful.