Greg in Maryland

Copied this from the Pine Ridge  Burner website:

Does the burner require a blower?

Yes. Because the burner's plenum needs to be pressurized in order to have all the orifices burn evenly, you will need a blower. A venturi or "atmospheric" system using only high pressure gas will not work.

Frosty,

My lack of knowledge begs me to ask:  Will it put out the same heat/btu?

Is the plan to use Kast-o-lite 30 for the flame face?

I like the idea of a ribbon burner.  I have a pine ridge burner that I bought a long time ago and never built a forge for it.  Maybe now is the time?  It is a LPI 190 which is good for 1 cubic foot of area.

Mike,

 I am thinking the “d” shaped forge we discussed earlier.  The burner is still up in the air.  What process would you recommend to decide on what type of burner to deploy?

The burner has 4 air slots that are 5/8 wide.  The ribs are approximately 9/16 wide.

I induced a light steam of air into the air slot while running the burner and it clearly reduced the unburnt fuel leaving the forge.  The temperature was holding steady before inducing the air.  The additional air started raising the temperature.  

How wide would you make the air slots for a first pass.  Also - would it be ok to widen only one instead of all 4? It would be more convenient to machine only 1.

21 hours ago, Frosty said:

Frosty The Lucky.

Thank you for the feedback.  I put the .030 tip in and got to welding heat with 12-15 psi.  I lost track of time but guess it took about 45 minutes.  I think the burner will do better with more air (widening the air slots).

8 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

I am willing to go right on to rethinking your forge, if that is what you desire. First, I would like you to ask yourself if you are actually satisfied with your burner's performance, or if you're just tired of the hassle, and feeling impatient "to get on with the job.

Mike - appreciate the continued help.  I know the final solution is a newly designed forge and burners.  However I am going to play with the hybrid burner for a little while longer.  I am going to widen the air slots to accommodate the .030 tip.  What’s the worst that can happen 

On 3/16/2023 at 1:07 PM, Mikey98118 said:

I would be having fun, if this were my own burner, but more care must be taken with other people's toys

I got curious and put the burner in the forge (.023 tip).  It seemed to be burn well with very little flame leaving the forge.   All your help paid off.  You could really see the adjustability of the choke to flame performance.
Observation:  it took an hour to get to 2000 degrees F @ 30psi.  The forge would get to 2200 in 30 minutes with the .035 tip but would be spitting flame out of the door.

Question:  Would the burner increase heat output if the air openings were widened and a larger tip (.025 or 030) installed?

No progress on removing the ball valve.  Will try something this week.

The ball valve is at the burner end of the line.  I will take it out to see what happens.

18 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

By the way, Greg; you do have a regulator and needle valve on that burner's gas line, right?

There is an appropriate regulator and ball valve.  No needle valve.

Sequence:  1.5 inch overhang with .060 movements to lengthen the overhang.

Interesting you say that.  Early on it appeared the burner produced less tertiary flame with more overhang.

.023 tip flush with the forward air slots at 15psi.

Sequence:  1.5” overhang then .06 increments.  Flame went out after the last photo.

9 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

Good Morning, Greg. How is burner tuning going?

No progress - work has gotten in the way.  Plan on doing some testing by Saturday.  Appreciate your help.

8 hours ago, swedefiddle said:

Good Morning Greg,

It's handy to make all your adjustments, holding the burner in a vice. Everything changes when you put the burner into your Forge.

 Neil,

Appreciate the feedback.  I have to admit, prior to “playing around “ with the burner outside the forge, I had no idea what a good/perfect flame should look like.        I like to tinker so it all goes into my experience bucket.  I’m sure I be asking for advice when it goes into the forge.

Until then,

Greg

8 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

Now, please try the same test positions with the .023" MIG tip.

Same process with .023 tip

3 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

This is interesting. For decades Tweco MIG tips for .023" welding wire had actual orifice diameters of .031". and the newer .025" tips were .034". I got used to larger diameter through holes in imported tips, but smaller diameter hole sizes makes absolutely no sense at all.

I don’t have pin gauges so I used a set of tip cleaners and a micrometer.  I am fairly confident that I am within .001.  To clarify:  The tweco style tips are made by American Torch Tip.

Test:  .025 Lincoln tip.  1.5” flame retention nozzle overhang at 15 psi.  Picture sequence:  Mig tip beginning 7/8” rearward of the forward air slots and moved in 1/8” increments towards the forward end of the air slots.

All testing:  1.5” flame retention nozzle overhang.  Tip .5” past the forward air opening.  15 psi.

First photo:  Schedule 80 nipple .025 tip Lincoln (actual orifice .031)

Second photo:  Schedule 80 nipple .023 tip Tweco (actual orifice .028)

Third photo:  Shorter tip is the Lincoln.  It is 1/4 shorter than the Tweco.

Thoughts?

On 2/28/2023 at 7:44 PM, Greg in Maryland said:

Below:  Schedule 80 nipple with .025 tip (Lincoln) 15 psi.  The previous settings allowed for a wide range of choke adjustment (burner would keep running with choke wide open).  The .025 tip choke range is only 1/3 of the air slot.  Any additional exposure (towards wide open) makes the flame go out.  Thoughts?

Below:  Schedule 80 nipple with .023 tip (tweco) 15 psi.  Observation:  The .030 tip in the post at the beginning of this page is a tweco.  The .025 directly above is a Lincoln.  The tweco tips are longer.  I also noticed the choke adjustment range retuned to the same as the other tweco tip.  It sure appears the shorter Lincoln tip is adding a variable.  Thoughts?

4 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

Take what you  gain here and run with it

What you don't get, or don't dig, speak right out about.

Appreciate your input into the quest for the perfect flame.  My knowledge has increased since joining this thread ( I recognize now how much I didn’t know about combustion).  I haven’t played with the nozzle overhang yet.  Will report soon.  The .023 tips are on order.

16 hours ago, Jake18 said:

sorry, pretty off topic but where do you get your schedule 80 1/8 in pipe? i cannot find it, at least not in smaller quantities. And thank you mike for the detailed flame report. I've been trying to get better at reading the flames and that helps.

Grainger has them.

On 2/25/2023 at 5:03 PM, Greg in Maryland said:

Results from jet change.

First picture:  Schedule 40 nipple with .035.  15psi.

Second picture:  Schedule 80 nipple with .030.  15psi.

Below:  Schedule 80 nipple with .025 tip.  15 psi.  The previous settings allowed for a wide range of choke adjustment (burner would keep running with choke wide open).  The .025 tip choke range is only 1/3 of the air slot.  Any additional exposure (towards wide open) makes the flame go out.  Thoughts?

8 minutes ago, Another FrankenBurner said:

This is my interpretation so far:

Appreciate the help.  A much better and more accurate representation than my attempt.  Thank you very much.

Am I close?

Results from jet change.

First picture:  Schedule 40 nipple with .035.  15psi.

Second picture:  Schedule 80 nipple with .030.  15psi.