Resinears

On 1/24/2021 at 9:34 AM, Another FrankenBurner said:

You want less output from your burner... Tim Allen is frowning somewhere.  

Actually, you have a fun line of questioning.  Good for thought.  Most guys are trying to push as much output down the pipe as possible.  This means we are all fighting for as much air induction as possible.  Where you are not demanding the max, you have surplus air.  You could get away with quite a few things that the others can't.  

First, what size forge are you talking about?  Most likely you could run two standard 3/4" burners turned down.  Though, I would follow others advice on that.  I have only played with the 1/2" Frosty T's so I don't know about the turn down range of the 3/4" burners.  

You are branching into your own thing a bit here.  I have used the 023 mig tips in the 1/2" Frosty T's.  You want an in between burner?  You might try the 030 mig tips.  

When you put a burner in a forge, it is pushing through more resistance so it will have a harder time inducing air.  How much so depends on the burner design and the forge design.  I have played with a lot of combinations and most of the time, the change is fairly minimal.  Where you have surplus air, it is nothing to worry about.  You can tune it to compensate.

It sounds like you have gotten it to burn cleanly by positioning the orifice closer to the throat to induce less air.  Nice job.  So long as the fuel air ratio is correct, mixed well, and delivered at a high enough velocity to not flash back into the mix tube, you are doing good on the combustion end of things.  Your ejection velocity will be lower so your flame may ride deeper in your nozzle, potentially over heating it.  If so, you can go to a tighter nozzle like a 3/4" coupling.  

You are correct, the orifice position fine tune's the air volume in the fuel air ratio.  The orifice diameter determines fuel volume in the mix ratio and the total energy output per fuel pressure.  

Could you post a picture of your flame?  I have not tried an 023 tip in a 3/4" mix tube and I would like to see what the flame looks like.  

The forge chamber is roughly 5 x 5.5 x 14", so ±385 in² which is why I'm not concerned with tuning two 3/4" T burners for maximum output, just a great burn.  I was anxious to get the burners installed so I could coat my kaowool interior, so sorry - no pictures of the flame outside of the forge are now available.  My initial findings were with a single burner, and I'd used torch tip cleaners to clean up the .023 tips, so I grabbed some .030's and tried them without messing with them.  I found that they stayed lit outside of the forge, and still required a bit of choking, so that's what went into the burners.  I don't want to waste too much time tuning when the burners have flares on them and they aren't in the forge.  

Last night I used a thin layer of uni-cast 33 to coat the interior of the forge, so tonight, I'll fire it and we'll see where we are.  I like the idea of having a lean burning forge that I can easily choke back the air to get it right.  If at that point, I don't have enough heat, I'll go the route of tuning for larger jets, maybe .035, use my drill style tip cleaners to ream them out a bit.  Gotta be more than 1 way around the barn...

Hi folks - I need input on my t-burner tuning.  As a rule, when they go from outside the forge to inside, do they require more or less fuel? 

The reason I ask, is that I initially put a .024 mig tip in that had been shortened and tapered, and using the prescribed dimensions for a 3/4" t-burner, it was way lean, as I could only get it to run well if choking the intakes with my fingers.  So, I tried the same size .024 tip that wasn't cut down, and with it closer to the mixing tube it indeed didn't suck as much air, and the mix looks to be very good out of the forge with the 1" to 3/4" reducer on the end of the mixing tube.  

So, shortening the mig tip or lengthening it fine tunes the amount of air which is introduced.  Would it be safe to assume that if you had a mig tip length that wasn't optimal (say, a bit too long, or too close to the mixing tube), if the orifice was small enough the final mix would be correct, and combustion would be complete?

The forge size is going to be too large for a single 3/4" burner, but too small for two burners running wide open, so I was hoping to tune for efficient combustion using smaller jets.  

In other words, if using smaller jets but having them placed far enough towards the 3/4" port of the T would allow for efficient and complete burning, or should I go for larger jets placed closer towards the 1/2 way point in the T-fitting, and just turn down the gas.  

Insight is appreciated!

Jeff

I thought I'd read EVERYTHING!  Thanks for the links - really good!  The tongs look great, and the anvils show some real ingenuity. I feel sorry for throwing so much stuff away over the years.  

45 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

First: source a *quiet* anvil like a Fisher or a Vulcan---or follow the directions to silence noisy anvils covered on IFI *many* times.  My Fisher goes thwap as it stands on it's stand.  My Hay Budden goes TING! unless it's silenced.

Thanks, I'm going with el cheapo 66 lb ACCIAIO cast anvil I got locally for $170 CAD to start with, but haven't even hit on it yet.  I suspect that will not be something long lived, and I have my eyes peeled for something better, along with a reasonable hammer, tongs, etc.  Will see how loud it is on the stand that is under construction (made of fence posts joined with threaded rod).  I will look into ways to muffle the thud on the concrete floor of the garage, the the reality is that everything has to be movable, as I'm not willing to permanently lose a parking space for one of several vehicles.  

I'm approaching 60 years of age, and my neighbours are somewhat used to loud cars, motorcycles, guitars, and many other noise creating activities coming out of my attached garage and house in an otherwise quiet residential neighbourhood.  I'm not sure how happy the neighbours will be with me banging on an anvil and playing with a forge, but I have been providing sharpening of their fine knives for some time.  Hopefully the favours will have created enough good will to get me by.  

I have to admit that I have always been a firebug, and think I'll be experimenting with different burners for some time, even though this will be my 1st forge.  My experience regarding combustion has always centered around tuning cars and motorcycles, and not being able to leave well enough alone.  Being invited to play at a friends forge has me hooked, and I'm looking forward to the experience in my own garage.  

1st things 1st - a functional forge.  Quieter burners if required will be a later goal.  Always open to suggestions!

Cheers,

Jeff

Many thanks for the reply and the welcome!  

Hi folks, 1st post from a beginner, living in Edmonton, AB. 

I am building a pair of 3/4" tube T-Burners, and will stick to the design parameters as have been repeated many times here, but as someone who constantly looks for ways to modify something, was wondering if anyone out there has experimented with machining the inside of the "T" intakes, to remove the treads and potentially smooth the intake airflow. If for nothing else, perhaps to quiet the sound of the air being sucked into the burner.  I'll probably try a number of different burners, but these almost build themselves, and I'm anxious to fire up the newly constructed forge.

Cheers, Jeff!