Moose65

Thanks. I haven't had time to work on the burners again. Work and kids baseball. But I hope too soon. TFT does your burner work the same in the forge? From what I have experienced you cannot judge or adjust for outside vs inside the forge.

If I zoom in I can see Frosty's blue flames on his four burner forge.

I didn't work on mine today but I really hope to get the T burners going tomorrow.

No Frosty you were not unclear. I just ran out of time at the shop today. I just wanted to show you was on the path for the t burner's build. Yes I understand I have to fine tune ne the distance of the tip in the opening as well as cut down my mixing tube. Thanks for the advice. We see how it goes by We'd or Thursday when I get a chance to work on it again.

Update. Well I had a little time to make it to the shop and try some of your suggestions. Installing the .025 tips, cutting and threading a new 6 3/4" mixing tube, drilling 3/8" holes in front of the nozzle tip instead of behind it, and adjusting down the gate valve and regulator allowed the blue flame tray steady on the flares. There is a slight roar but not as load and hot as I would like. But all of these gave improvement. When I turn up the regulator the flame separates and jumps.

i also took Frosty's advice and built a couple of "t" bu nets. I had to make do with what was at shop and ran out of time. I didn't cut down the 10" mixing tubes or got the nozzle tips the correct distance from the mixing tube but I will give the "t" burners a go. 

I am attaching more pics so you all can see the build. I will be adding more Satinite but not sure if I can lay ins wool on top of last Satinite layer any advice recommended please. 

I am aware of the large doors. So far I keep one end shut and use the other door as needed. I may cut a rectangle 3x5" hole in one end.

Thank you all for your support. This build has been a learning experience and he'll I don't even know what I will be forging but I hope to make a set of tongs first. I sure could use them already.

Ok tomorrow I will experiment with jet at the rear and holes forward. I have some 3/4" and a threading machine. What size holes and how many initially? 

https://youtu.be/VxzdqcPzXj8

His was one of the basic designs I saw. Not necessarily my design. I'm not a fan of the t burner but I may have to change. I still don't feel I am far off bass with mine. I will try and get more pictures tomorrow.

I viewed the T burner design and opted to try the jet burner instead. Would it help if I added a choke tube and gave that a go and also with smaller orifaces on nozzles?

Thanks for all the help. I believe a true diy project involves trial and error. That is why I do it. I appreciate everyone's help. Sure send those plans on over. I'll be glad see them. Thank you.

14 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Are you guys following anybody's plans? Both your burners are running darned rich. Moose your burner is extremely rich that's why it's fluttering. Did you calculate the volume of the forge and determine what size or how many burners to use?

I recommend you look around, find a reliable set of plans and follow them. Forget what some person on the internet says he got to work. Don't look all over the place for help, you'll get sage advice from kids who haven't figured out how to make one work yet.

A set of plans for a forge aren't a bad idea either, there are ratios regarding volume, shape, opening size and placement, burner number and alignment, hot face liner, insulating backer and kiln washes. All these factors effect how or even IF a forge will work efficiently. After you get a handle on what these factors mean and how they effect performance is a good time to decide what yo MIGHT need to make what you wish to make.

Frosty The Lucky.

Yes I agree now. I read, I believe in BURNER 101 thread, that one 3/4" burner could heat 350 cu in. Well I have about 5000 for two burners. So might have screwed the pooch on that calc.

I measured out the burners from the threads for the flare to the nozzle as about 7".

the flares are just 3/4" brass with smooth brazing Tip of 1" ID. Just me using what I had.

if it is two rich that means too much propane? I added holes until I got a blue flame and not a yellow flame. I stopped because I felt it was going over 40% of id of mixing tube.

I actually can heat metal now but not efficiently

Thank you in advance. 

4 hours ago, TFT said:

Wow thats a massive forge... i know i had some issues (Perhaps bouncey) with my crappy flares, as i have tried to machine a few... maybe its your flare what is it and or pics heres my air intake..

Alot of holes 

The forge an from one of those portable air tanks. A little larger than a propane tank in length by 8" or so. The burner I followed online had the tip forward. I did try one with tip at the rear holes, actually the first one I built the tip was at rear, and it was always too lean. No blue flame. Even with many orifaces. I may have to try it again.

2 hours ago, Latticino said:

I may be totally off base, as I haven't seen the video, but from the photos I'm seeing a couple of questionable things:

1. Looks like your flame is detaching from the front of your burner. As I understand it that means the gas/air mixture is moving too fast for the size of your burner outlet. If the mixture has the correct proportion, and I can't tell that from the photo, then you need less of each. If not enough air is being induced and mixed with the gas then you most likely need to increase the gas velocity with a smaller diameter orifice and position it properly. I'mnot that familiar with the burner design you are using. Perhaps you should contact the designer for advice? It takes a lot of time and experimentation to get a well tuned NA burner to work well. If this is your own design, be prepared to put in the work to get it right.
2. How thick and what insulation have you used for your forge? Looks thin to me, but hard to tell
3. I sure hope you removed the doors to show us the flame. Otherwise you are fighting a losing battle with those huge openings

Thank you for the reply. The flame does bounce back and forth. I have a 0.30 tip, the smallest I could find in my shop. I may try a 0.25 because that is the easiest fix. I place the tip forward after viewing a burner design like mine on the web. However my first design was the tip to the rear and it was worse than this one. This one actually stays lit and heats metal but flame bounces and I know that is not optimal.

The insulation is one inch ins wool coated with Satinite. Then I layer fire bricks in the bottom. It probably could have used two inches of ins wool. But believe me the forge gets hot, very hot.

Yes the doors the big doors are open on both ends.

Ok I did post three videos in .mov format. I will see if I can post a picture. I almost tried slots. I was thinking slots at an angle to let the air enter as a swirl.

Thank you for the assistance. My blue flame is bouncing up and down in the forge. It does heat but the bouncing is not optimal. I am attempting to attach some pics of the video showing the flame at different locations so you get the idea. I also took a pic of the missing tube. I do not have a choke installed.

I did attach three videos but if they cannot be viewed they show the blue flame bouncing away from the flared ends. Any advice would be appreciated.

The burners 101 and other threads have been great! I wouldn't! Be where I am without them. But I need a little more help. I have built a DIY gas forge out of an old air tank. I have installed the ins wool and refractory cement. I am on my fourth build of jet burners and have read and drill enough to make a block of Swiss cheese. I am closer but still not happy with the bouncing blue flame. The mixing chamber is 3/4" and about 7" long from the first breather hole to the threaded flare. My holes are about four 1/4" and four 3/8". All just behind the 0.30 welding nozzle. I started with two holes and progressed until I had added up to eight and then bored out four to 3/8". I do not desire more holes. It has improved but I feel there is room for improvement. Thanks in advance. Moose.

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