smilyjoe

I know a guy who hit an Elk. It came through his pickup's windshield and the antlers broke off in his chest.

He drove himself to the hospital and lived.

I see them a lot up here. Wolves, mountain lion, cariboo... I've heard stories of Grizzly here too

Look what I saw on the way to work this morning!

28 minutes ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

I don't make the rules, tho I agree with them and have myself ran afoul of them on ocasian. The fact is this is a privately owned and paid for site, one to witch we are guests and privlage to be so. 

Simple rule on language, do you want your daughter using such language? Would your grandmother wash out your mouth?

Imagine your self sitting on Glenn's front porch, with his wife and grandkids, if you insist on urinating in his wife's flower boxes you will have problems 

I often use the word c**p in front of my children. I'd rather have them say that word than watch some of the filth they get to see just driving down the street in Denver. 

38 minutes ago, Glenn said:

 

To tell folks NOT to suggest reading material, links, photos, or search phrases and if they do share their knowledge with you, THEY are ignorant is unacceptable. It may be YOUR STYLE and how you ordinarily talk, but it could easily be considered insulting to others that have the knowledge you seek.

In context, I do NOT want someone to say:

     "Go look it up. It's on this site somewhere."

I PREFERE people to say:

     "Go look it up. Search "blah blah blah" or "blah blah blah." Also, check out www.INFORMATIONONBURNERS.COM or something."

Please, Glen. I know you are a moderator. Don't take stuff out of context. It's rude. Also, I am intending to insult some people here. I've looked up a few of the people who have commented on some of my posts, as well as some of the "big commentaries" I've seen on the forums. 9 times out of 10, they really don't know any more than the guys on YouTube - even if they have written a book. Writing a book isn't the end-all on being an expert.

Also, I edited my post to make sure it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings or anything.

I'm sorry if I offend anybody. This is how I ordinarily talk. I wont say anything here that I wouldn't say at church. 

Crap isn't a bad word. Its considered slang, like say'n ain't or 'merica.

Which curse words did I use? As far as I see, there isnt any. I put a little character in my writing, no matter what I write. This is called Style, and its a key element in the English language.

Im building my own burners because I'm cheap. And, its fun. And, nobody can seem to give me a straight answer on the best way to build one, so I figured I'd do it myself.

Started working on my forge's twin burners this week.

So far, everything is turning out great. I have not tested this design yet, but plan to do so soon. I started off by taking a close look at my TurboTorch tips that I use at work (Acetylene gas).

Here's a picture of the TurboTorch tip (A11).

I too extra notes on the brass section of the torch tip, where the gas begins to mix with air. The gas flows from the regulator into a small chamber, with a very tiny hole machined in it. This little hole sits just before the air intake, which is proportional to the overall diameter of the tip size. I know this because other air intake holes on smaller and larger TurboTorch tips that I have increase and decrease based on tip size (A5 vs A11 for example).

Here's a picture of the air-intake holes.

Here's a somewhat poor picture of the little hole inside the tip I'm talking about.

Anyways, I started considering how I could make this into a larger burner with propane gas for my forge. After learning a bit about forge burners form various sources (mostly the black hole of the Internet where I lost most of my soul), I took a trip to the hardware store (Ferguson Plumbing Supply where I do most of my day-to-day business for work). I purchased a few 1/4 brass fittings, including a 1/4 to 3/8 90.

I took the small 1/4 brass cap which I purchased (hex) and drilled a 1/16th hole dead center in the cap. I took a 12" black nipple (also purchased from Ferguson) and cut off the threads. I then proceeded to drill a lot (like, swiss cheese-lot) into the top of the nipple about 3" down. I tapped some set-screws into the side of the gas pipe to hold my reducing 90 (still to be determined if this is the best way to center the fuel hole in the burner). I slid a small piece of stainless steel pipe (one which fit nearly perfectly over the 3/4 gas nipple) up the pipe and used a screw to set it in place (to control air flow for tuning). This covered some of the holes that I drilled earlier on.

Finally, I choose to use a small piece of stainless steel pipe which was flared out at the bottom of my burner. I connected it to the 3/4 gas nipple via a set screw as well.

The 1/16 hole in the hex cap as seen through the mostly-completed burner.

The first burner, and the soon-to-be burner. I need to test the first one before I make the second.

Ok. Tell me what you think.

People - I'm not looking for drama. The last few posts I've made here have been met with some ornery little kid crap. If you don't like the way I write, move on people. There's at least a few thousand personalities on this forum. You won't get along with everybody. Moving on, away from the drama, I would like some honest opinions. I've never built a forge or burner before.

________________________________________________________

That's it. Let me know how I'm doing.

Be joyful. Be friendly.

Live life to it's fullest, and have no regrets.

I forgot to take a close up picture of the little holes I drilled in the 3/4" nipple. They are as evenly spaced as I could get them with no drill press (soon I'll have one of those too). Again, I modeled the air-intake after the holes on the turbo torch.

This post has been heavily edited by Claytonzeimet. Quotes below were made before the edits.

On July 16, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Frosty said:

Welcome aboard Jack, glad to have you.

 

Don't despair, rebar isn't an alloy spec material anymore, it's made to performance specs, just so long as it meets minimum specs they don't much care what all is in it. You may run across rebar that's actually tool steel, whatever was in the rail car that got dumped in the melter.

 

Given some time and experience you'll develop the skills to determine what you're working with by how it reacts to a grinder, the fire your hammer, etc. You won't be able to tell it's analysis (don't be sily <grin>) but you will be able to determine a working range and utility range.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

Frosty may be referencing the old-fashioned "Spark Test." I don't know where this chart came from, but I've seen it here and there, so figured I'd give it a share. Nobody from this site probably created it since there are so few random charts and guides here.

21 minutes ago, Frosty said:

How much have you read in the Iforge gas forge section? Everything you ask has been explained, discussed, even argued over. The what, how and why of vortex generation has a lot to do with what the smith is making. That's discussed in depth as well.

Most recently there has been a long discussion about lining gas forges with pretty solid reasoning for using kiln shelf rather than fire brick for a gas forge floor. The reasoning is hard to argue with, it's sound and compelling. Kiln washes are also discussed in depth.

In the same series of threads there is long discussion about why one should use openings as small as possible in conjunction with baffles to reflect the IR radiation back into the forge chamber.

While I could answer your questions directly to a degree you will gain a lot more from doing some reading in the Iforge archives, there are probably thousands of posts of valuable information. Just the gas forge section contains many hours of good solid research. Please take notes and look things up if you need to.

Just cruising the internet puts you in a position of trying to sift through posts by people who know a great deal of what they speak from people who's only qualification as experts is a video camera and connection.

So far you haven't done anything to your forge shell that can't be corrected but I highly recommend you don't continue till you've gotten a good handle on what's what. When you gain enough knowledge to ask good questions and understand the answers there are a bunch of us here who'll be happy to give you a hand. But honest to Pete you have to have a base knowledge that isn't social medial . . . stuff.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Considering that I only discovered this forum last weekend, and joined as recently as Monday at 7:52 PM... I haven't read much in the iForge gas section. I'll be honest with you - I'm not asking to sift through people arguing with each other on what they think is right.

Here is my problem - I don't understand the gas vortex thing. Nobody has taken a picture anywhere on this form that I have found, I don't have thousands of hours to read other people's comments. So, I'm asking if someone might be willing to entertain the idea of helping me make a decision on where I should put my gas burners, and explain why they think that? It's like... a decent question for the gas forge section... right?

Oh, and as I've stated above. I'm using firebrick flooring for the floor. If I had the materials to do more, I would. I'm working with what I have. From other projects, I somehow magically have a small stack of firebrick sitting in my work room. I don't have kiln. I have firebrick. So, in light of what I have, this is the basis for this decision.

I'm building my forge for a purpose, Frosty. I appreciate that you think there is something wrong with it, and that something (i.e. opening) needs to be corrected. It won't be corrected. It's part of my design.

Here's my quote for the night, in response to your comment on questions...

"The only poor question is a question never asked."

7 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Thomas I'm beginning to be convinced neither of us knows enough to be of any help to this young man.

Frosty The Lucky.

How bout this. How bout I build what I want to build, and you guys can criticize it later. Sound fair?

This is one of the reasons I don't usually like to participate on forums and such. I just get to frustrated with the one or two know-it-alls in the crowd who can't fathom a person who can think outside of their opinion.

I've officially started building my first gas forge.

Honestly, I've never done something like this. Most of what I know about smithing comes from the black hole known as the Internet. So, I'm reaching out. I'm starting a thread to get input from the community as I run into problems. Here's what I got so far:

It's a propane tank with a big hole cut into the top. I made the hole approximately 8" in diameter. I did this to make it easier to insulate the thing, and light it up later on. Notice, I've sanded all the paint and little rust down to bare metal. I plan to use high heat primer and paint on it later on.

Please note - the 8" hole is not the forge opening. I plan to mount a hinge somewhere on the top of the forge, and connect a 8" saw blade to it. The saw blade will have a single layer of 1" Kaowool, and 1/4" of Satanite on it. The center of the saw blade will have a 3.5" hole in the center to allow forge gasses to vent out proportionately. 

The inside of the forge will be lined with 2" of kaowool, and 1/4" to 1/2" of Satanite (whatever feels right when I'm putting it on). I'll also have a sacrificial firebrick floor which will be replaced when needed.

I haven't finished building my burners yet, but they are coming. They will be two 300,000 BTU 3/4" propane jet burners with machined orifices (not torch tips). My math says that this thing should be able to get to forge welding heat with little to no problem. I'll also have a small door in the back (hinged on/ stainless) which will only open when an object is passed through it. 

Questions I have for the community:

• I'm still not sure where the burner placement should be. Should I go directly on top? I understand some people put the burners at 15 degrees off dead center to provide a swirl of some sort. What is this swirl? Can someone take a photo of it for me so I can better understand what I'm actually trying to accomplish?
• How do I attach the burners to the forge? I don't have a welder. I'm thinking some short black pipe nipples and corresponding nuts? Just not sure.

I'm sure I'm going to come up with lots of more questions in the future. I'll ask on this thread as stuff comes up. Thanks for the help!

6 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Sorry but we don't vent propane; we BURN it. If your system is venting propane something is wrong.   If your plumbing is leaking is it OK or do you need to FIX it? The forge vents CO2, CO, N2 and H2O at high temps. I usually use firebricks to close in the doorway of my forge as much as possible leaving just enough space to get the workpieces in and out.

I once started to get a headache at a SOFA meeting where they were running a propane forge rich and had closed the sliding doors a bit more than usual as there was a storm going on outside.  This was a good sized room with bleachers in it for the meeting attendees. I tend to advocate over caution as I prefer not to lose any more friends to easily dealt with dangers. You are of course welcome to live your life as you see fit; I will just err on the side of warning folks even if it's perhaps more than I myself may follow...(I gave the farewell toast for Paw Paw Wilson at Quad-State the year he died; you'll run across his story here or over at anvilfire.)

Sanders vs Grinders: speeds, bearings, protection of bearings and motors from dust, types of belts used (though the old garnet belts are not as common as they once were for wood sanding) In general one can grind wood on a belt grinder better than once can sand metal on a wood sanding system...   I've worked in a commercial woodshop and for a swordmaker so I have some experience with both set ups---as well as 35+ years smithing.

To correct you, chemically speaking, burned propane turns to:

• CO - Carbon Monoxide
• CO2 - Carbon Dioxide
• NO - Nitric Oxide
• NO2 - Nitrogen Dioxide
• SO2 - Sulfer Dioxide

Propane does not stop being propane simply because it's heated up. The molecules are still there, they just bond with other molecules to form different compounds.

13 minutes ago, jimmy seale said:

Howdy Clayton, I used to go through Leadville( i worked out of Rifle) and around the western slope. Used to get coalatMountian Feed and Supply. Welcome to the site, lots of knowledge on here! jimmy

The company I work for is out of Rifle. I do a lot of plumbing/mechanical work over in the Vail valley (all the way up to Eagle), and some work in Aspen when Independence Pass is open.

3 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Sorry but if you are venting propane gas you are totally doing it WRONG.  Now 2000 degF exhaust gas is lighter than air at ambient temperature and rises.  You may have seen hot air balloons using propane burners to get lift.  Outside helps a lot particularly if you orient wrt the wind direction to blow across the exhaust and away from you and especially away from the burners!  Nothing spike CO production like running exhaust back through the burner.  

You do realize that a propane forge is a small metal melter right? And if you will be working with metal I suggest going directly to building a belt grinder and skip the belt sander---there are differences!  (yah we tend to get picky with language as mistakes can be painful if not lethal!)

On venting propane gas:

Sorry, I'm still new to the smithing language. Propane vents down since it's heavier than air. Co2 vents upwards, since it is lighter than air. Either way I look at it, the forge I'm building has a rather large opening in front which will serve as a sufficient heated air vent. Because I'll be using it outside (not in some tiny room), I think I'll be ok. I've used far worse in enclosed spaces, and feel fine.

On melting metals:

I know, I know. Propane forges can melt metals. The problem I have is that my forge plans are a little large for the metal melting purposes I have, and I plan to spend some money on fuel while operating it. Because of the cost of fuel, I'll probably make it so I can take one of the burners out of my forge, and stick it in a smaller tool to melt copper, gold, or brass (or, whatever really). It should cost less to heat less space.

On building a belt sander/grinder:

I'm not sure what the difference is between a belt sander or belt grinder. In fact, as far as I know - a belt sander simply has less power than a belt grinder. This shouldn't be a problem. Since I've added the belt sander to my project list for this year, I've been on the lookout for multi-speed motor, which I can use to switch between wood and metal modes with the push of a button. Yeah, this is going to take some rigging, but I'm a creative guy. I shouldn't have to much trouble.

On mistakes being painful:

For my day-job, I do plumbing and mechanical. There's not a day that goes by where I'm not crawling up the side of an elevator shaft, hanging off the side of a scaffolding, soldering on the top of an extension ladder, or having near misses with my fingers against a chop saw. Life is just that. Life. Not to be to grim here in my response, but death is a part of life. Live every day to your fullest, trust in God, and make judgements based on sound thinking. Anybody can have a mistake which can lead to a missing finger, a marred arm, or a coffin. We take that risk every day we wake up. For smiths, it's just another part of living fully. The call to create is more powerful than our fear of harm.

I'm mostly going to be using the forge in the parking lot of my apartment complex until I can find a better place to live (hopefully small yard with shed on property). Propane vents down since it's heavier than air, and working outside helps my lungs a bit. The neighbors don't mind the noise as long as I don't do it in the middle of the night. It's still winder up here (probably will get our last snow in early June again). The cold doesn't bother me much. Hot metal cools a little faster, so stuff needs to get thought out ahead of time since every hit needs to count.

I plan to do some more projects after the forge is running. A small metal melter for brass, copper, and bronze, as well as eventually a homemade 2x72 belt sander. I'll need the forge to make some stuff for the later projects though.

Anyhow, I'm super excited to be here. Been reading a lot, and have found some really good ideas already.

Hello from 10,000 feet!

Ugh, I never know what to say when introducing myself. My name is Clayton, and I live in the highest incorporated city in the United States (Leadville, Colorado). I'm really new at smithing, and don't have a lot of support as far as teachers in my area. Basically, I've learned a whole bunch from youtube and the black hole that is the Internet.

I got into all this stuff because I simply need a way to relax. My job and family are fairly stressful, and smithing/making stuff is super fun. This summer, I'm working on building my first gas forge. I'm using an old propane cylinder to house everything, insulating it with kaowool and a coating of satanite. I'm hoping two 3/4" burners will be enough for the project. It's so hard to tell because I live at such a high altitude. I may have to construct some sort of blower for the thing to work properly. That's a forum post for another day though.

Please take some time to say hello. I'll try my best to respond to everybody.