nashdude

I started my knife shop on her maiden voyage yesterday and ground out (yes, ground---no forge yet ) a pretty decent blade. I've got a deer antler ready to go on the end of the tang, but I was wanting to finish it up with a brass guard, preferably a hunk that's somewhere in the neighborhood of 1x2x2. Thing is, I got NO CLUE where to scrounge for brass.

A buddy of mine found some cheap brass "door treatment" at a local hardware store, but no joy at mine. Suggestions? Thoughts? Outside the box?

Welp, scratch that idea

I got me a (much needed) Delta SA180 from a friend this afternoon, and went out to my shop to make a place for it. While I was out there, I got to thinking about the scrap piece I was going to use for my razor. So I put it in the one-brick forge and brought it to non-mag. I took it out to let it cool, then set up my Delta. By the time I got done and took another look at the scrap, I noticed a diamond shape around the hole that I hadn't noticed before.

Yep, you guessed it. As soon as the metal cooled, that diamond piece fell out, leaving me just a couple mm's of metal holding the would-be blade to would-be tang. Needless to say, I was ticked. :mad:

Anyway, scratch one straight razor... at least for now. I've got a piece of antler I've been dying to affix a blade to anyway, so I'll come back to this later.

Glad to have you back :)

Well even with my limited knowledge of circular woodsaws, it could either be some grade of HSS or a steel of some description with carbide tips welded on. Or it could be something a little more 'out there', like L6. If you want any realistic chance of succeeding I think that IDing the steel is your first step.

That could be an interesting project. Do you plan to try to shave with it?

A good HT cycle is in order....to be able to shave with. Good luck googlemaster!

Ummmm... steel?

Honestly, I don't know. I just know it was a standard wood blade that was of no further use in its original state.

Now that I have my one-brick forge going, I'm ready to get in my shed and DO SOMETHING! But since I haven't got up the money to get a belt grinder yet, nor set up a REAL forge, nor transformed my RR rail into an anvil, my options are kinda limited.

So I'm rummaging around my scraps and came across a section of sawblade from my first stock-removal knife. It's the center piece in this pic...

I'd put it in my one-brick a few days earlier for her maiden voyage, heating it to non-mag and thus achieving a milestone (yay me!), but hadn't thought much about it since. Then I got to looking at it, and noticed how EASY it would be to grind it into a straight-razor-like shape.

I found this thread through Google, and it gives a lot of good information in there, but I'd really be interested in what yall have to say.

So how's about it? Anyone here with a little hands-on I can draw from?

Complete newb observation, but I'd say it's because as a holder, the blacksmith can watch the striking in progress---adjust the forged item on the anvil as necessary, or call a halt to the striking, or what have you. When you're swinging a hammer, your attention is divided between detail and muscle, so I would imagine the smith as the holder would be about putting as much attention to detail as possible.

nashdude, The best way to identify unknown steel is the use the grinder spark test.

A great advantage of this form of test is that it can be carried out on the steel at any point, e.g.. as a billet, an ingot. a bar, a forging, or often a finished piece. The test is carried out on the steel as it stands, and the elaborate drilling of separate samples with the possibility of confusion is eliminated. At the present time, also, the test has great utility, because it enables pieces of undesired metal in a batch of different composition to be picked out quickly and cheaply, and set aside for scrap or salvage, whereas to have to analyse them chemically would constitute a prohibitive charge.

The principle on which the test is based is this: The effect of bringing a piece of steel into contact with the face or cutting edge of a grinding wheel is to force or wrench off tiny fragments of the steel. The wheel runs at a high speed, and the friction is so great that the temperature of these fragments is raised to such a height that they become white hot. This makes them brilliantly visible against a dark background, and their passage through the air as they are flung off has an almost comet-like trajectory, which is termed a " carrier line."

The basis of the test is that different metals give off sparks or particles of incandescent character each having a different trajectory and form. For example, wrought or ingot iron will give off a little bundle of individual lines called a " spark picture." A O.2 per cent. carbon steel will give a line of brighter colour and will throw off a series of fine branches from this line known as " forks," or " primary bursts." These are due to the presence of carbon. It will thus be seen that wrought iron can readily be distinguished from carbon steel by means of the spank given off.

Raising the Temperature. The effect of raising the temperature of a metallic particle to white heat and hurling it through the air at great velocity is to cause any carbon existing in the fragment to combine with oxygen in the atmosphere to form carbon dioxide. The change from solid carbon to gaseous carbon dioxide results in an increase of volume. This increase of volume is withstood to the best of its ability by the particle, and the result is the setting up of an internal stress that ultimately leads to the complete disruption of the particle thus causing the fork or burst responsible for the branching out of the line. This, at all events, is the theory. The greater the percentage of carbon in the steel, the more marked is the branching effect, and this has proved fairly conclusively that carbon is the element causing these forks or bursts.

Examples. A few examples will serve to illustrate these facts:



Fig. 1 shows cast iron, which possesses a dull red, non-explosive spark that thickens towards the end. Fig, 2 shows wrought iron, whose spark is brighter, as indicated, and has a luminous extremity. If any traces of carbon are found in the iron, the extremity may reveal a burst or fork.

Fig. 3 shows mild steel. The thick, luminous iron spark is broken up by the branching due to carbon. Fig. 4 shows a 0.60 per cent. carbon steel spark. The tendencies have virtually vanished, and the carbon branching occurs nearer to the grinding wheel. Fig. 5 shows a high grade tool steel containing carbon. Fig. 6 is high-speed tool steel. An odd carbon spark or two are to be seen, but the rest are modified by the other alloying elements. The sparks are of an orange hue, and vary in brightness as they travel, giving the effect of an interrupted line, while they have a more luminous tip.

Fig. 7 is high manganese steel. In this case the spark is different from that of the carbon spark inasmuch as the explosive particle leaves the luminous line at right-angles. and the sub-division of explosions is also at 90 degrees, as against the 40-50 degrees of the carbon sparks at Fig. 3. Fig. 6 is self-hardering Mushet steel. Here an odd manganese spark is visible, and the relatively high tungsten percentage appears to give discontinuity to the spark. Finally, Fig. 9 is a tungsten magnet steel. Here can be perceived the respective sparks of manganese tungsten and the like.

Since I get most of my knife steel from old tools or junkyard/metal yard scraps, I could seriously use some tips here. And as I'm scroungin', I really don't have the resources to send the metal off to be tested

Now, I know that you can tell pretty much any iron-based metal by its magnetism. Also, I know you can tell stainless steel from carbon steel by the type of rust that coats it. Stainless is generally dusty, surface rust. Carbon steel is generally a much harder rust---very little dust, a good deal of pitting.

What I'd like to know is if there is any similar way to tell the difference between steel and iron? Is there any backwoods way to tell what metal is what?

First of all, congrats on forging your first knife! I'm still at the "one-brick forge" stage myself, so I've yet to attempt the ol' hammer and anvil, but it's coming, trust me :cool:

Now then, I do have to take issue with one point...

As soon as a make a couple more, I will be able to convince my wife to let me buy some nicer handle material.

I wonder how hard it would be to apply the principles to a WOOD build. I've got access to ALL KINDS of pallet wood, so I wouldn't be hurting for materials.

That is AMAZING, man! Such an original idea, and so masterfully done. Definitely set the bar higher with that piece.

A number of guys have used corn in their forges and most say it behaves more like coal than charcoal as it sticks together like coking coal. It'll weld. I don't recall any comparison for consumption vs. work done.

That'll be up to you so please let us know what you find out. Take careful notes, we like good data.

Frosty

Wullo!
In my experience corn works just like coal. It burns at the rate of charcoal, and the flame from the burning gasses is very very large. It definitely gets up to welding heat, and you can burn steel in the heat.
be merry,
Archie

LOL never tell a cheapskate "just buy it and see" ;)

Someone mentioned this yesterday, and it sounded like a really interesting alternative to coal or charcoal. I know a few of you have tried this, so if you wouldn't mind, I'd like some comparison (especially since I can get yellow feed corn for $6.75 per 50lb hehe)

1) How hot will a corn fire get compared to a charcoal or coal fire?

2) Will a corn fire get welding hot, or just forging hot?

3) How FAST will a corn fire get forging hot?

4) How fast will a corn forge go through fuel compared to a coal forge? How fast will a corn forge destroy its fuel compared to other forges?

What I'm looking for is as indepth an analysis---effectiveness of fuel, durability, cost comparison---as I can possibly find. It won't matter much to the overall design of my forge. I just want to be fully informed on what my options are, pros and cons.

Wow! I never knew that corn could be used as a fuel source beyond its ethanol applications. Thanks!

Some people have tried cracked feed corn and I've heard

If you go to Ace, They do have other brands of hardwood charcoal. Also if you are buying in bulk they will probably give you a discounted price. They do carry Cowboy brand but also carry frontier brand. Frontier comes in larger size bags.

Sure good sharpening skills are required as well, and Murray is one of the best.

i think there is something fake in that there video.

Seems that convex blades are much easier to get this sharp than beveled blades. Also, they seem to hold that edge better with constant use.

What say yall? Beveled or convex?

By the way, you'll do a lot more forging per dollar on the $12 / 100# coal.

You can use blast furnace coke to. if you can find a steel foundry close by.
It burns extremly hot and clean & smokeless.
Can't say enough about it. Recomend breaking into small one inch nuggets.
This way it covers your work more evenly and has more surface area,
to produce a more even heating. Fire will burn a clear blue flame.

You know, I've seen some fancy stuff done with knives. I've even seen knives sharpened to shaving sharp. But this really takes the cake for me...

YouTube - Shaving with a camping knife!

I love the idea of using charcoal in a forge fire (and no, not just for my forge/grill combo concept ). But I live practically dead center of my city, so I have no way of making my own charcoal in quantities necessary for forging. That leaves me with two options---buy charcoal, or buy coal.

I know a place where coal is available for $12 per 100lb, but I don't know where I'd find real charcoal.

EDIT: The Google Master strikes again

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1755124

Any cheaper suggestions?

I'd love to do it that way. Problem is, I've got no clue where to get hardwood charcoal already made. I'd make it myself, but I live practically in the heart of Dothan, so any charcoal maker would be... noticable :rolleyes:

Do what you want but no way would I combine cooking with smithing.