muskiedaze

Rory, I've sold about a dozen of them so far, for $70 . Not exactly the road to riches, but it's a start and it pays for the propane. :) John

Some earlier rifle barrel pipe and rr spike hawks, and a couple of "crusader" hawks for my new Medievel re-enacter friends, and the spike with the curly maple/purplehart haft I made to match the riser on one of my recurve bows.

My latest batch of rasp hawks. Starting to get the hang of it.

I've been forging quite a few welded hawks from fariers' rasps. I started useing a guillotine for making my initial weld, and I've had good results in achieving good welds as well as a consistantly sized opening to use for the socket. I have a standard hawk drift which is tapered on the side facing the blade and parallel to the haft on the poll side. The taper on the drift is much steeper than the taper on a standard handle. My problem is that I believe that the taper forces the bottom of the drift to the right (as would a single bevel wood chisle hammed into a block of wood) and subsequently causes the hawk head to mount on the handle at an upward angle. I've tried gently drifting from the bottom to open up the socket a little which helped somewhat. I've considered welding the socket a little wider at the top, but the proper degree is slight and may be difficult to achieve consistantly. Any ideas? Thanks in advance. John

Thanks, Ron. Thse stickies were quite informative and very well written. I wish I had read them sooner. John

Ron, I'm useing a propane forge . I've been tempering with a propane flame, either a torch or if needed the hotter flame on my kitchen stove. Neither will reach tempering temps with my larger heads. I'm considering trying to temper with either map gas or acetelyne, if needed. Is this a good idea? I tried tempering in an small electric oven, for 2 hrs , 3 times. It didn't seem to do much. By a muffle pipe do you mean a 3 or 4 inch diameter steel pipe to place my hawk in to kep it from the direct heat of the forge? I will read those stickies . Thanks Again, John

Mr. Grufty, I just checked my rasps. They are save edge USA. Guess I lucked out on that. I like your tempering method. Very interesting. I don't think I need nearly so hard an edge on my hawks as on a draw knife. If I tempered to a violet color with a propane torch, do you think that would achieve an appropriate hardness for a hawk? Would a slower oil quench give me a less brittle result? Ron, I'm glad you told me about needing to hit non-magnetic on temp rise. I haven't been doing that. Perhaps that's part of my problem. Its also difficult for me to get a uniform temperature on the entire blade. The tips of the edge of the blade heat and cool more quickly than the rest of the blade. I know this is a lot of questions. I really appreciate the help. John

Ron, Thanks. I'm useing new 30 weight motor oil. Its probably fairly cool as it's outdoors. I quenched when the steel became non-magnetic. I was in no particular hurry to quench, but I didn't take more than a few seconds. I don't even know what a soak is. Farrier rasps aren't exactly falling out of trees like crab apples around here, so I have to use what I can get. I'm going to try again today if it doesn't rain too hard. Thanks for the assist. John

Rich, That's interesting. I didn't try water quenching because I thought it would cause the steel to be become very brittle. The hawks I did took a good edge. I was suprised the files didn't become very hard prior to tempering. Thanks, John

I recently forged some wrap & weld hawks from farrier's rasps. Would someone know a proper quenching and tempering method for that type of steel? One I quenched in motor oil that didn't harden enough to skip a file, but I don't necessarily need that hard an edge for a throwing hawk, do I? I've been tempering with a propane torch to a bronze type color. Thanks, John

Hey Old Frost, I didn't mean that "laugh on me" in a sarcastic manner. I think this incident scared some of you guys more than it did me. Honestly, not only didn't I soil my pants, my heart didn't skip a beat. My first thought was, "Xxxx*, I hope that didn't blow a chunk out of my saw blade." Maybe it's because I've had so many close calls with the Grim Reaper in my life that this incident didn't even make the list. You know what really scares me? People driving at 80 MPH, bumper to bumper and changing lanes with no signals on the interstate. The City. Drug addicts. xxxxxxxx. Lightning. America's decline. Unexpected Gunfire? nah. John

Well Old Frost, Apparently, I wasn't thinking at all. I've used muzzloaders all my life. Its pretty simple to tell if one's loaded with a ramrod. If I had done so and found it was charged I certainly wouldn't have used oil or WD in an attempt to soak the powder. After all, What next? Couldn't be sure the charge was dampened. What I would have done is : put the barrel in a vice, remove the nipple and put my propane torch to the port, basicly the same thing I did with my saw. Hey, at least I had the thing pointed down range. Funny, one drop of rain and I can't get the dang things to fire when I want them to.Hope you guys had a good laugh on me. John

Oh, but it did.

This really embarassing,but I've decided to share my experience. I've been making some of my hawks from old muzzleloader barrels. Typically, I unscrew the breachplug to get rid of the threaded portion of the barrel. So this guy sells me this old rusted out barrel that had been siittng in his basement for years. I couldn't get the plug out, so I thought "great"; this is the perfect opportunity to try out my new abrassive cut-off saw. Well, the instant that hot blade hit the powder charge..... KABOOOOOM!!!!!. good thing I live way out in the woods , was working outdoors and had the barrel clamped in really tight. Could have been a disaster. What a dope. John

Brian, Austin.s work is very impressive, but is skill level is higher than mine will ever be. I will try an extended bit though. Thanks, the video was awesome. Owen, I'm definately gonna get some clay and try that out. I just got one of those G2 guillotines today and used the fullering tools to draw down the beard. It worked pretty good and I think with a little more practice it will hep alot. . I appreciate all the help you guys have given me. John

Thank you all very much. Your advice has been very helpful. John

Thanks, Guys, I gave it a try. I took an 8" piece of 1 1/2 X 5/16 10/84 and upset both ends and increased the thickness about 1/8 ", and then reduced the center section for the socket to 1 1/4 X 1/4 X 4". Looks good. Tomorrow i'll wrap and weld it and see if I can draw down a decent beard.

Mr. Basher, If I got a piece of that clay and got it cold could I actually hammer it to see how it moves? That would be a great help for me. Thanks, John

Mr. Bigfoot and Mr. Powers, Do I understand correctly that what you are saying is to is to upset each end of my stock and draw it down in to a beard, then wrap and weld ? Or for a drifted hawk to upset the blade side to give me more metal at the end of the blade, and then slit and drift? Sounds good. I did forge one hawk from 5/16 stock but the walls of the socket were very thick and required alot of grinding. I didn't attempt to draw a beard on that one. Perhaps if I thin out, or draw down (like you suggest) the center portion of 5/16 stock prior to wrapping...... might just work. Thanks for your time and expertice. John

I've made a bunch of hawks over the last 6 months, both drifted, and wrapped and welded. My one attempt to add a bit failed. For most of my welded hawks I've used 1 1/4 X 1/4 inch 10/84 steel. One of the problems I'm having is trying to draw down a decent beard. If I bend the end down I lost too much metal from the uper end of the blade. Is welding in a bit piece my best option or is there a hammering technique I could use to achieve this? Thanks for your help. John

I just attended Joe Szilaski's class (in upstate NY) for making Damascus. He was extremely knowlagable, Instructive and hard working. Joe's wife Lori made the class some really delicous meals and their hospitality and mealtime discussions were outstanding. I also attended his class on Tomahawks and plan on taking his engraving/ carving class too. Both classes cut way down on my learning curve. I highly reccomend the man if you have the opportuity and the need for some instruction. John

Thanks again. Mick, I've tried a similiar jig to no avail. I'm going to try the drillpress method the next time I have access to a floor mounted drillpress, but Dunlap's handles are looking better all the time, but even some of those don't have perfectly centered holes, but the wood is nicer than most of the stuff I come across. John

You guys are really smart. Thanks for all the good ideas. BigGun, That is brilliant. John

To my understanding, commercially drilled hafts are done on a horizontal boreing machine with a stationary hollow bit throughwhich 100 #/sq.in. of air pressure is used to clear out the chips from the rotating stock. The handles are then shaped on a CNC type machine. I guess I won't be doing this at home any time soon. John

Mr. Willis, Is the drill bit you described called a "Deep Bore Bit?" (single flute, I believe). I have read about them, but did not think they were available in 1/4 inch. Would you know of a supplier? Thanks, John

Gentlemen, Thank you all for the advice. I've already succeded with laminated handles with 2 shallow saw kerfs glued together and drilled, but it messes up the appearance of curly grain patterns, with the thickness of the saw kerf plus the wood lost by jointing both halves. Dunlap does have very nicely made handles, but the drilled ones are kind of pricey, and sometimes his wood selection is limited. I suspect they are made with a stationary drill and rotating stock , as gun barrels are made. Thanks again for the help. If I come up with a way to do it , I will post. John