kraythe

Is the flashback suppressor required?

Required? No. 3$ to have cheap insurance to save the house and potentially the family? Sold!

Timely bump as a new crop of s,it's wanting to build forges gets underway

Be careful building burners if you are new to welding. Blown burners need to be gas tight and that is not simple. Last thing you need is a jet of hot propane out the top of the forge. I build ribbon burners but after I mig the seams, I take another pass with oxy acetylene torch to remelt the weld and flow it so it is gas tight. A TIG rig would do as well but I don't have the cash for that. :)

I wanted to get away from cast jobless. I have done a ton of forge building and burner building but u just find that the bricks are the easiest to build, maintain and configure. You can have it small and flat one day and taller and cooler the next day.

The valve springs might work. I think I would want to spread the load out so I wouldn't use a plain nut but rather a piece of bar stock against the side of the bricks. Arched roofs are an interesting idea but my blown ribbon burner wouldn't dovetail with that well if the bricks are on edge.

Thanks for the Balcones Forge plug Thomas.
 
Kraythe,
Balcones Forge is a great group.  Many of our members are in the Austin area.  We will be meeting this Saturday at 11:00 at the Hays County Barbeque restaurant in San Marcos.  Due to the heat, we will not be doing any forging.  We will have a membership meeting and following we will have a board meeting.  We have Mark Aspery coming back next spring for our Bluebonnet Demo.  We usually have workshops during the week prior to the demo.  He is requesting that we have ten forges up and running for the forge welding workshop.  Developing a plan of action to get these done will be the main topic of our discussion.  It would be great to see you there and any one of us would be happy to answer any questions that you may have.  Friends and family are always welcome too.
Jerry

I am sorry I couldn't come but it was just impossible with work. I need to get my forge back up and running first as I haven't been in the shop for months. I am just a hobbyist anyway, not an expert or anything. I am sure you guys would all cream me in ability.

Greetings, I mostly use firebricks for a forge and I am having a problem that I was hoping to get suggestions on.

I would like to create a forge that had a top that spans more than one brick but am having difficulty figuring out how to span the gap when it's longer than a single brick. The thoughts I had were.

1) put a threaded rid through bricks on their side and clamp them into one brick. The problem is that these bricks are quite fragile and I think in thermal cycling they would crack as they have nowhere to go against clamp pressure.

2) put something under them to support them. The question is of cours what could I put under them that would survive welding temps and not add a ton of thermal mass like hard bricks would.

Any suggestions on these two or another technique?

Awesome. I will check them out. Thanks for the heads up!

Greetings,

 

I just moved from colorado to Austin texas and I was just wondering if anyone knew a good low cost metal source in the area, especially one that has scrap as well as stick metal but doesnt reuire purchasing a whole stick. Thanks.

How is the emissions from a Coke based forge? If that is an option then I might go with that. Charcoal might work if I could find it in sufficient enough quantities. Buying it by the bag from the hardware store can get expensive. Also is there any special fire tending procedures for using charcoal? I know for sure that it can get hot enough because i saw a video about smelting pig iron in africa using charcoal (impressive vid by the way).

Problem is minimizing smoke is not what i need, I need smoke elimination (at least smoke that has any odor or visibility) I dont mind if CO comes out the chmimney or oher invis gasses but if there is anything like real smoke comming out it is a no starter. That is why I am currently working with a propane forge and dealing with the extra scale as best I can.

The problem is I have seen lots of forge construction vids of similar nature but what I really wanted to know is hw it worked out over the long term, not just how to put it together.

If you drill the soft brick it will break. Rub two bricks together at an angle, you can make them wedge shape, like a cathedral arch.
 
Neil

I have drilled soft brick with success using a drill press driven by hand with a hole saw as a bit.

I don't want to cast the roof because the thermal cycling will crack the roof without a doubt.

I would love to be able to use a solid fuel forge but the problem is that I live in a residential community and if I start spewing out coal smoke, my neighbors will flip and shut me down. What I am wondering is if there is any forge design, fuel or other method I can use to create a forge that has very low emissions but uses solid fuel. I had thought of perhaps something like a gassifier design or something that would reburn the exhaust fumes.

 

Any advice is appreciated.

I am trying to update my forge configuration and I have designed a side mounted ribbon burner that uses a soft fire brick for the flare protection. The jets are 3/8" ID steel tubes and the design is a pressurized plenum burner. What I want to do is mount the burner on one side of the forge which will be rectangular. The base will be made of soft fire brick with hard fire brick on top for the internal floor to be sacrificial for borax (I do a lot of cable welding). The idea for the sides is that they would be soft fire brick painted with ITC-100 on the hot face. So think of a square floor of 8 fire bricks and sides with the firebricks sitting flat with the internal edges as hot faces.

 

What I want to do is make a roof for this forge that consists of soft fire bricks set on edge so that the 4.5" is the thickness of the roof, the 2.5" by 9" side is the hot face (with itc-100 coating) and the bricks are stacked to form the roof. The problem is I have to support the bricks or they will fall like a house of cards. I thought of drilling the bricks with a half inch threaded rod that would pass dirctly through thecenter of each brick and would have flat clamps on both sides that would allow them to be held clamped together (sort of like a vice)

 

What I am concerned about is expansion and contraction of the bricks under heat. Soft firebricks are pretty soft and can be easily broken by hand. If they expand while clamped and when heated to glowing, they could come apart quite spectacularly. At the same time I would rather not use hard firebrick because the insulating properties are not as good and the thermal mass of those bricks is quite high.

 

So does anyone have experience with clamping soft fire bricks and if so, what were the challenges you faced, if any?

 

Thanks in advance.

Turbulence is good in the mixing part of the pipe. It ensures a complete mix. According to the laws of fluid dynamics you might get a better pressure by removing an elbow but the difference is negligible. The main pressure drop is in the flare tubes. On the other hand I shoved this thing in my brick pile even without the cast flare and it nearly melted iron in the forge. So it does well. I am actually playing with a couple of variants of this.

Very interesting burner.... You mentioned a round burner instead of a square ...any more thoughts on that ? Since you seemed to have such an issue with the wooden dowels... How about SS tubes and leave them embedded in the casting ? Is there excessive heat where the flames exit the cast burner tip ? Would skewing the tubes into a spiral direction create a swirling flame (if using a round tube) or is it preferable to have the flame feed straight into the forge chamber ? I'm only asking questions that popped into my mind as I read the buildup on this burner. I'm assuming this type burner would be more suitable for a larger size forge. Please continue to update this thread... I've not seen this type burner discussed before and it appears the conversation on it has stopped. EDIT--- I found the thread on the round burner and will read thru it too...

If you angled the jets the effect would depend upon the shape of your forge. I honestly don't think it would do much. Ribbon burners don't leave a lot of extra gas to get burned in the forge like some other designs. They are efficient. Running a ribbon burner at 2 psi will give you the heat of 10 psi of a normal blown or venturi burner.

Great guide. I'm in the process of making a gas forge right now. The brake drum forge just wasn't cutting it. I'm thinking I might use your burner design for the new one. It'll be a two burner forge. Not sure how many cubic inches yet but bigger than your brick pile forge.

The brick pile is not meant to be a super-forge. It is, however, cheap and highly effective. I can melt brass in it. After you go to all that work and toil, you will likely find flaws in the design and that is why the brick pile forge is genius for people learning. I spent nearly 1000 dollars trying to cast my first forges or create them with KAO Wool and so on. And in the end I found that they all had flaws. If I had started with the brick pile, life would have been easier and I could have spent that money on other goodies.

Hmm, are you the pine ridge burners guy? If so that is way cool. Thanks for the information. Thats pretty much what I figured. I am going to have to do some tinkering with the design to make sure that doesnt happen. I have been experimenting with the flare and I think the length of the flared tubes is too long, that they should be 3/8" much further and then flare out perhaps only at the final inch. Unlike the burners you guys sell, I am going for small forge designs and that is kind of a hard thing to do.

I actually broke the flare off and the 3/8" jets were able to stay fired in the forge and outside the foge if i turned down the air a lot. At the same time I am wondering what would happen if the flare end was actually metal on the outside, perhaps coated with an ITC coating designed for metal.

It is fun experimenting with it.

 

90%?

I was trying to be conservative. Probably more like ALL beginning smiths, but I dont want to be too absolute. :)

For those of you who have doubts about the abilities of a brick pile forge, check this out. I put my 3 inch ribbon burner in the brick pile and then fired it up. For laughs I put in a scrap 2" black iron end cap that was no longer usable and some scrap brass, including screws and so on. The handle I welded on broke off in the heat. When I pulled it out the metal was sparking (burning). At the same time the brass went totally molten and acumulated in the bottom of the cap but the cap itself started to bubble in the forge, turn plastic and begin to burn away or melt. That indicates an extremely high temperature.

This is the cap in the forge about 5 min after I turned off the heat and took off some bricks (with tongs).


I quenched it for giggles and this is all that is left of it.


If the brick pile forge can melt brass that easily and start to soften steel then its clearly capable of doing what 90% of beginning smiths or knife makers need to do with it.

Neat burner! What is the final gas suppy oriface size? (Jet size)

Honestly I dont recall. 1mm maybe? I drilled that orafice a heck of a long time ago.

I've been to the different hardware stores where I live and none of them carry those items, the nearest distributor of firebrick is in orlando (70 miles away)
so when you account for traveling it would cost quite a bit.

Try buying from the Hitemp Refractory Store on ebay if you cant find them elsewhere locally. Soft firericks are light and the shipping is minimal. However in Orlando I cant imagine you cant find the right bricks. Dont look for hardware stores, they dont know anything. Instead look for a ceramics supply store. If they dont have it, they can undoubtedly direct you to someone that does. Ask for insulating firebricks used to make Kilns. I must say, however, that the Hitemp Refractory Store has some good stuff. Ordered from them before.

I did not get an answer back yet on anther thread about whether or not to fire my forge before applying plisix, so I went out and lit it anyway.

Takes a while sometimes. Poeple do have lives you know. However you can fire the forge before or after the plistix, either way works. You will need to fire it after though to make the plistix cure.

I guess I cannot post pictures directly from my computer. But the flame I got was blue and sounded like a torch kind of a steady roar. Then the blue would go out and I could not see any flame at all and the pitch would increase. It would go back and forth like this. I pulled the burner in an out a few times and adjusted gas flow.

After a forge is up to heat it would be normal to sometimes not be able to see the blue flame in the forge. That depends on the light in the forge. The glowing bricks will make it tough to see sometimes. If you adjust the burner properly when the forge is cold, be patient. The forge will come up to temperature then a lot of the unburnt propane will get ignited by the atmosphere. As for the pitch, that depends on the burner and the forge. If the flame for the burner is retreating into the burner then the back pressure is overcoming the venturi effect and the forge, ironically, needs more openings to breathe properly. If the flame is leaping off the end of the burner and going out then the gas velocity is too high and you need to use a bigger jet. A smaller jet might also help against back pressure. Adjusting venturi burners is tricky. It takes a lot of trial and error.

My main question is what am I looking for?

Steady sound, good flame characteristics, 6 to 8 inches of dragon's breath. Flame should be anchored right on the top of the flare and not off it or inside it.

I wanted to use a firebrick(1.25" thick) in the bottom but it is wide enough that I have alot of space under the brick. I did not have a brick available when I built the forge to see how it would sit. The space above the brick is about 5 inches or so wide and 3.5 tall.

If its a hard firebrick, Id stuff some insulation underneath. If it is a soft brick than get a hard brick.

I lit it at first without the brick but did not do any adjusting until i put the brick in. Then it was too hot to remove the brick and attempt to adjust empty. I am planning on trimming that brick so it sits deeper in the forge body.

Ahh be careful. Hard firebricks when glowing are in excess of 1500 degrees. Do not touch them even with gloves. However, venturi burners have to be adjusted exactly to the size of the forge and when you change the volume of the forge significantly by putting in a brick, especially if that brick chord's the surface of a can forge, the volume has been drastically reduced and a tuned burner may now suffer from back pressure problems. This is why blown burners are easier, you can just crank up the air a bit if you need to. However, venture's have their advantages. I would say you probably are having back pressure issues with the burner and need to adjust the jet's position in the burner, size and jet tip. Without being on hand, that is the best I can do.

You might try uploading a video to youtube and I can help you further.

I am seriously looking at buying this forge but I would like to know if any of you have any opinions on the quality of it,

http://orlando.craig...2742314825.html

Hmm I don't know how that would heat well. Even with some bricks in it is a two venturi burner rig. Very chancy. I wouldn't do it. Especially when I can make a perfectly good forge for under 100 dollars. Just see the post in my signature.

one simple possibility for that forge, if you decide not to build your own, would be to stack up fire bricks (check your local brickyard or hardware store) around the sides to help keep some of the heat in. you can change them around depending on size of work etc. just make sure you leave enough exhaust area to prevent back-pressure.
if you want to get fancy paint the hot faces of the bricks with itc100 or plistix
best price i found for itc 100 is on ebay.

Uhh don't use normal bricks from a lumber yard "fire" or otherwise. They can't take the thermal overload of 2000º and their concrete reaction will be driven backwards and they could explode. Instead you should use real insulating bricks.