Dodge Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Just a thought about a tent over the trailer: The late Great Paw Paw Wilson's trailer, metioned by Dale Russell earlier in this thread, had a roof that swung up from diagonal corners. It was a cover for the trailer when in transit and attached to the trailer on the diagonal and hinged in the center on top. to set up, a winch pulled cables attached to the opposing corners, lifting the "A" shaped corners into the roof. Posts or pins of some sort held it in place for safety. When I visited him and saw it, he had installed an electric boat winch to replace the crank. Really neat. I cant find pic at the moment of him "raising the roof" (pun intended;)) but here's an old one I believe was posted on anvifire.com BTW, Great looking set-up you have. You've done well!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 Thanks for the replies guys. Haven't been on here much lately and missed em. OK, I already had a light ket that I had bought a while back so I went ahead and used that. They worked the first time I plugged them in. Of course I should have enough practice with that light kit! It's the third time I've wired one. (stock trailer, boat trailer, and now this!) Anyway, that's done! I also mounted the vice. I did not go with any of the suggestions given, but let me explain. I have waited until two days before the first event so I just did the quickest option. I welded a piece of the 2x4 chanel to the frame that the axle mounts on and I have a bracket on the end of that to recieve the leg. I got to looking at it and if the leg was just a little shorter I could leave it mounted on the trailer all the time! That would be wonderful. So, and I still can't believe I actually did this, I cut the leg off short! It was a mental battle of making things SOOOOOO much easier at an event, and cutting the leg off a 100 year old vice. My reluctance was overcome though and practicality won out. I'll get plent of pictures at the event. I still like Frosty's idea about using it as a jack. Right now it's plenty solid but his idea is really nice sounding. I like the latest idea as well as it would be easier to get to if it was by th tongue. I do not usually use rubber boots, having some tie ups that I wear. That's a good point though! Thanks for the pict. That lools like an interesting set-up. I would like to eventually add at least a forge hood to the trailer but an entire shade would be really nice. Reenactment this weekend will have plenty of photos to share of her in action for the first time! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 Here are some pics of my demo trailer set up, and of our booth space all together. I don't really have any close ups of the vice yet. Also are a couple of reenactment pics. I'll have more photos on a blog on our website some time soon. The event was prosperous. I cleared about $150 and also got some very potential contacts. (IE Brigade commander that is over 350 men!) Thoughts??? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Looks good Dave! Watch your fellow reenactors and the way that their gear and impressions will evolve and become more refined as they spend more time in the hobby. Practice this with your impression as well. Continue to research and study, then let your gear reflect the knowledge you gain. Great work. Keep it up. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 That's looking really good Dave. Don't worry, it's a tradition to wait till the last moment to finish up a project. I think sometimes it's the only way I can decide a thing. Any pics of you at work in the smithy? Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerkid Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Looks and sounds like you had a good event Dave. I agree with frosty we want pictures of the smithy goin LOL Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) Looks good Dave! Watch your fellow reenactors and the way that their gear and impressions will evolve and become more refined as they spend more time in the hobby. Practice this with your impression as well. Continue to research and study, then let your gear reflect the knowledge you gain. Great work. Keep it up. Don I agree, strive to represent your impression correctly! What do you want to educate the public about that time period? Your gear should reflect your knowledge. You built a absolutely beautiful *modern* looking blacksmith demonstration and teaching trailer. I am greatly impressed. Edited May 22, 2009 by UnicornForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted May 24, 2009 Author Share Posted May 24, 2009 I wish my gear could reflect my knowledge...however my funds do not allow that. Maybe my sign off should be FARB KING! LOL Anyway, I built this trailer for little over $500. I know about the artillery forge you posted a picture of. I have use a 100% authentic repro of one! Took $5000 to build it. At 16, $5000 is an awfull precious sum. I am at the age where my hobbies, interests, etc, do not need to be draining my funds. I am at the age where I need to be saving to be able to provide a house, land, car(s), etc. if and when the Lord provides me with a wife and family. To me, blacksmithing, reenacting, authenticity, (there people jump on me with a choke hold!) boatbuilding, fencing, NOTHING, can take a place of importance over that! NOTHING!!! Maybe one day, but today is not that day! Sorry I was unable to get any pics of the forge "in action," as momma was busy under the tent all day! We have another fest coming up, and as we will all be present, I should be able to get some good ones there. Thanks for the thoughts, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 (edited) I wish my gear could reflect my knowledge...however my funds do not allow that......I know about the artillery forge you posted a picture of. I have use a 100% authentic repro of one! Took $5000 to build it. At 16, $5000 is an awfull precious sum........ That is a lot of money. My guess is that the gentleman may have purchased the wheels and that could account for as much as half, or even more, of that $5,000. Tom Alexander just finished his second reproduction Civil War era Traveling Forge, as well as at least one limber and at least one No.1 canon carriage. Tom is a genius at scrounging and making stuff with minimal tools. The wood for his first Traveling Forge wheels, if memory serves me, was second-hand wood donated by someone who had used the boards for trench work. His fireback was an old discarded disc from a farmer. Tom builds all his own wheels. My understanding is that he spent less than $500 to build his first one. I would not be surprised to find out that he spent less than $100 to build his first Traveling Forge. I too built my own wheels, saving myself massive cash. I guarantee that I have not spent $5000. The key is to scrounge, and improvise. You may be surprised at the amount of assistance your local blacksmith group might provide. Joining a local blacksmith group will give you access to sources of materials, information and physical assistance. Jim B. donated the heavy staples made from 1/2" thick by 3" wide steel flat stock for the underside of the carriage. Tom A. donated the wood that will become the 57" wheels for the forthcoming limber. Dwight N. donated 7 hours of sweaty labor putting the two tires on two 57" wheels. The local scrap yard has lots of iron at less than new prices. I took a handful of yellow pine flooring boards, split them lengthwise, and used them for the roof of the bellows house. Local woodworkers, and/or Amish, can help you acquire affordable wooden wheel and wooden carriage parts. The boxing (bearing) for the wheels are 2" schedule 40 pipe. And "gasp" even plywood if you don't have oak, you can always upgrade parts as better materials become available. And lets not forget the miracle of industrial adhesives from the local discount Megamart and lumber stores, and metal fasteners from a wholesale fastener supplier (fill in the socket on a 1/2" socket head bolt with weldment, and you have an authentic looking 1/2" tire bolt). All of the *successful* builders of Civil War Traveling Forges, that I have conversed with, used what materials they could afford. "Paint covers a multitude of sins", is an old and very true saying. Ron Hoke at Windyhill Woods, Windyhill Woods home page plans for decortive wagon wheels, buckboards, carts, chuckwagons has a book on making a 57" wheel using a "glue up" method (pine, yellow pine should work) that he offers to people doing reenactments. I used oak, hickory and the traditional method to build my wheels, but Mr. Hoke's method and cost effective materials should be fine for just rolling a piece of equipment gently on and off a trailer. I have yet to meet anyone that built a 100% absolutely authentic Traveling Forge. Everyone I talked to did what they could reasonably afford, with what materials they could find or scrounge... still their Traveling Forges looked real good, and nicely authentic, even close up. I have read postings to the Internet where individuals have made outrageous claims about the cost of building a good looking Traveling Forge. I don't know where their heads are at, maybe they just don't want the competition. Maybe they used the finest materials and/or paid other people for lots of the parts. Online suppliers of Civil War supplies offer cast steel reproductions: hasps for $95, a single hinge for $95-$100, and small hooks for $17, but I am confident you could make them for a lot less. Scrounge, improvise, get the assistance of members of your local blacksmithing guild, and you can build just about anything. Hummmm, if every smith in your area donated a part.... Dave, I would be happy to be of assistance in helping you figure out how to do it affordably. If your main frame and bellows house is done by the end of 2010, I will make and donate a pair of heavy T-hinges for your coal box. If your main frame, bellows house, coal box, and wheels are done by the end of 2010, I not only donate the two hinges, but will also cut down, and donate a leg vise for you to use as a "tongue vise" (unless you don't want the donated parts). Edited May 24, 2009 by UnicornForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 another thing to remember is your protraying a confeterate soliger .. they had to improvise . if you built a wood box forge with bellows i know that is authentic! it donset haul as easy (got to lift in and out of trailer ) but it is authentic and can be built on the cheap ... if your really interested check out 1860s civilian portable forges ... there wert a lot of um but they were around and more likely to be used by a confederate ...i had a picture of one but cant find it right now .. anyway if you make it from mostly wood and keep the steel use to a minimum it will be much more authentic ... just figure on the portable part that it would have been loaded onto a wagon ....good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 (edited) another thing to remember is your protraying a confeterate soliger .. they had to improvise . if you built a wood box forge with bellows i know that is authentic! it donset haul as easy (got to lift in and out of trailer ) but it is authentic and can be built on the cheap ... if your really interested check out 1860s civilian portable forges ... there wert a lot of um but they were around and more likely to be used by a confederate ...i had a picture of one but cant find it right now .. anyway if you make it from mostly wood and keep the steel use to a minimum it will be much more authentic ... just figure on the portable part that it would have been loaded onto a wagon ....good luck!! Here is a picture of the confederate forge that you mentioned. A letter in the Official Records documents that wood box forges were the only forges used by Sherman's army during his march to the sea. dablacksmith is correct, there is more than one way to represent Civil War period blacksmithing both authentically and cheaply. A wheeled forge is a luxury at a living history event. I started building one for my own enjoyment and satisfaction, and by doing so I learned a great deal by making the wide variety of parts necessary for building the carriage, hinged coal box, and two complete 200 pound banded and tired wheels. The Civil War blacksmith experience is not making tent pegs and cooking gear, it is about building and repairing wheeled equipment, building and repairing wheels, leather goods, anything in metal and wood. Edited May 24, 2009 by UnicornForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 (edited) I feel that it is important to keep in mind Dave's goals and requirements. He described the need for equipment that he could set up without assistance and present a professional appearance. Towards that end he did a wonderful job carefully constructing a beautiful demonstration trailer which any smith would be proud to use and own. Having such a beautiful trailer also will attract commissions and establish him in the eyes of his potential customers as a serious professional. In contrast a wooden box forge, while historically accurate for units both North and South, does not sound like it would meet his stated requirements, nor is a box forge as likely to improve sales. Although purists may differ in opinion, I personally believe that his trailer is suitable for historic venues, especially if he takes the opportunity to educate the public about the evolution of equipment, perhaps even having a storyboard with pictures and drawings showing and contrasting the equipment of the mid-1800s with modern equipment. Dave is obviously a very talented fellow destined for greatness as a smith. The progress of his talents are exceptional for a smith of any age, especially one so young. I can only hope that he will take the opportunity to acquire a degree in design, and spend a couple of years as a Journeyman in Europe so that he can quickly maximize his skills as a world-class artist. I have been to a presentation by a young man who followed that path and everyone was impressed by the man's range of knowledge and ability. My recommendation to construct a reproduction Traveling Forge was considering a number of factors. Dave obviously has a lot of talent, patience and skill, and he wants to present a professional appearance at as wide a range of events as possible. He also wants to use equipment that rolls into place and sets up quickly without assistance. His demonstration trailer fits all his requirements but may prevent his participation at some events. It is also obvious that he has the skill to build anything that he wants to. I don't know who or why anyone would want to discourage him from building an historic forge, either like Jim Hoffman's colonial forge, a British traveling forge, or an American 1860's traveling forge; Dave obviously has the talent, and likely can scrounge all or many of the parts, and other smiths like myself would be more than happy to assist him and even donate parts to encourage his efforts. Personally, I feel that an historic wheeled forge is something that will maximize his sales and exposure and help maximize his learning experience in the life and skills of that time period. Such a forge would also serve him well for perhaps a lifetime, and provide him with enthusiastic invitations to many events and opportunities; I have given this years of thought. Towards this ends, I offer a challenge to the forum. There are many talented and skilled smiths on this forum. If even a small fraction of those smiths were willing to make even one forged hook, hasp, bracket, handle, etc., we could if Dave was interested, have this young man well on his way towards an historically correct 1860's wheeled Traveling Forge. We could start a separate thread to track who is volunteering to do what, and people could PM me for historical diagrams and specifications documented by Captain Albert Mordecai. The list of iron parts, for a Civil War era Traveling Forge, except for fasteners includes: 2 axle-bands, fastened on the ends of the axle-body (helps reinforce and support the axle withing the axle-box). 2 understraps, (made from 0.5 inch by 2.5 inch bar stock). (holds the axle box to the frame). 1 lunette, like that for the caisson, except the size of the rear hole, and 1 additional bolt-hole (this is a heavy ring with a curved forged strap on top, as well as a straight strap welded to the bottom, the straps taper from about Edited May 25, 2009 by UnicornForge Add photos and missing items Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 UnicornForge, you can count me in. You can PM me with the specs of whatever I can do to help. I think this is a great idea. I hope Dave takes you up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 I am overwhelmed by the generosity of such an offer. I would be a fool to refuse such an offer. So, procede! Of all the money I make at events I allow myself a small percentage of spending, so that within a year or two we could have a completely historic forge built. What do I need to do to get this started? Thanks, Dave P.S. AWWww common...the making whatever was a little bit of an exageration. JOURNEYMAN??? I can't make a ball on the end of a piece of steel in any number of heats, much less one! LOL :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I have organized a list of the key iron parts by level of challenge and have a column for showing the IForgeIron member who has so far volunteered to make the part for young Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 I think I could manage all of the sheet steel pieces that didn't need bending. If they are thin enough then I could bend them cold right? (Isn't #24 the thickness and isn't that pretty thin?) I don't know about the airback though. It seems to be shaped a bit wierd!? I am pretty sure I could do the bellows hook as well. The only thing I am trying to figure out is how to get the T-shape. Do you punch/forge the top part, forge the hook it's bar, and then weld the two together? If so I could do it. I don't know of any other way of doing it though. However, maybe I am missing something. The iron piece on the end of the bellows pole I could manage as well. (bellows pole strap) The only thing I am wondering about here is the pivit whole. How is that forged and attached? The bellows pole stud is the same way. I can manage the upright piece and the little foot thing at the bottom, but I don't know about that little piece up toward the top!? The three straps made from the 1/2inch by 2 1/2 inch bar I could do. (They are going to take a LONG time to heat! WEW!) There are probably some more parts that I could do, but for now I am pretty sure I can get the above ones done. Thanks, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Unicornforge: Do you have pictures of these items? I'd like to do a couple. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Frosty, you are a saint. I will PM you with the URL for Mordecai drawings that I posted on Photobucket. I hesitate to post the URLs to the whole world, and am not sure how to otherwise limit the URLs to the forum. If there are items that you also want photographs of, I can also either post them to Photobucket.com or send specific photographs to an email address as attachments, whichever works better for you. I made most of the parts by a combination of forging and (gasp) stick welding. According to the Ordnance Manual most of the parts, for example the bolts were drawn down from blocks the thickness of the bolt heads, which means the heads were according to government specifications *not* upset from stock the diameter of the threaded area of the bolt! So forging combined with arc-welding, and then hiding the welds, in my humble opinion is the way to go in making most of the "forged" parts. If you could keep me informed as you make items, then I can update the chart to keep interested people informed. As I have hopefully succeeded in showing on the chart (it took me almost 2 hours to try to make it readable) Donnie is planing on starting with the Lunette, and I plan on starting with the Coal Box hinges. Critical parts that I hope people will contribute include: 2 Under-straps (made from 0.5 inch by 2.5 inch bar stock) holds the axle box to the frame 1 Stock-stirrup, fastened to the front cross-bar (made from 0.5 inch by 2.5 inch bar stock, holds stock to front of frame). 1 Axle-strap, fastened to the middle rail (made from 0.5 inch by 2.5 inch bar stock, holds rear of stock to axle-box). I consider them critical because those 4 parts ("straps") hold the main parts of the traveling forge together. After the main parts of the carriage are constructed, those straps are needed before proceeding further with the construction process. Please note that both Jim B. and myself tried to forge these straps by hand, and found that the only way to get them to meet the specified measurements, was to arc-weld the pieces together and then round the "curves" with weld material. Neither of us could get the heavy bar stock to bend precisely enough to where they would fit properly to firmly hold the wood parts together. Primarily because the metal expanded unpredictably and significantly when heated. Jim was successful at making the straps, while I was still trying to figure it out. My gratitude to Jim. I also hope that some brave soul will contribute the Air-back: Air-Back (fabricated version): consists of 1 box and back plate, joined air-tight by 4 bolts. I can provide photographs of an Air-back reportedly cast from an original. Please check you private messages, in a couple of minutes as it will take me a few minuted to write the message. Many thanks,Unicornforge: Do you have pictures of these items? I'd like to do a couple. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 (edited) I think I could manage all of the sheet steel pieces that didn't need bending. If they are thin enough then I could bend them cold right? (Isn't #24 the thickness and isn't that pretty thin?) For the fireplace, I (gasp) skipped the bending and rivets, and arc-welded slightly heavier flat stock together. That way the fireplace was more durable, I also avoided a lot of cutting, bending and riveting. If you want it to look riveted, you could always weld some dots where each rivet would have been. Unless the viewer is *really* familiar with the Mordecai specifications they are very unlikely to notice the difference. I don't know about the airback though. It seems to be shaped a bit wierd!? The Air-back is definitely a challenge, mostly because the diagram is difficult to understand. I can provide photographs of an Air-back that was reportedly cast from an original, to make it understandable. I rated it as one of the more challenging projects. Hopefully a brave soul will volunteer to construct it. Tom A basically took a used discarded round disc used from farming, extended ears to the sides, a box to the back, and then a separate removable backplate for the air pipe to enter through. I am pretty sure I could do the bellows hook as well. The only thing I am trying to figure out is how to get the T-shape. Do you punch/forge the top part, forge the hook it's bar, and then weld the two together? If so I could do it. I don't know of any other way of doing it though. However, maybe I am missing something. I made the bellows hook from three separate parts arc-welded together, and the welds ground smooth. A rectangular piece of flat stock, a triangular piece of flat stock, and the hook forged from a square bar. I would humbly suggest your first project making the saw horses or stand for supporting the carriage during construction, and then you next project to make the frame, bellows house, stock and axle box so that you can concentrate of the final fitting of iron pieces as they are contributed or made by yourself. The pivot hole was first drilled in a thick piece of bar stock. Then that end of the bar was cut off and arc-welded to the bottom part of the pole strap. Then weld material was added to form the curves where the two pieces met. Then a hand grinder was used for final shaping. I cheated. The Ordnance Manual, if memory serves me correctly, expected the whole thing to be forged from one thick bar of iron, and thinned out to form the straps and hook. The end of the bellows pole strap is a forged hook. I also made this piece from pieces. The top and bottom of the strap cut and forged to shape, a separate hook all drilled and forged together. Then the two chain links were forged, inserted into the hook, and then the opening in the hook was narrowed, just enough with a hammer to prevent the chain from falling out during travel. The bellows pole strap is attached to the pole with a combination of screws and two rivets that I forged in-place using soft iron wire. I can send you a piece of iron wire when you are ready for it. (Hint: iron "pulling wire" works like extremely fine grade wrought iron. I would be happy to explain what pulling wire is to people who volunteer to help you. ) The bellows pole stud I made from three pieces. The bottom is flat stock notched to accept the vertical member, and the vertical member which is drilled to accept a round metal rod. I welded the three pieces together, then used 6011 welding rod to build up the odd looking rectangular area where the round rod meets the vertical bar. Final shaping and hiding of welds was done with a 4" "fast grinding" disc. I used a round stud slightly smaller than the recommended size so that I could use a brass bushing as a bearing surface. The bushing brings the stud up to size. I also drilled a hole near the end of the stud so that I could add a washer and a cotter pin, to make life easier. Jim B. and I tried forging them by hand and could not make it work. Jim ended up welding the pieces together and rounding the "curves" with welding rod and then hiding the welds by grinding. Again, I think you might want to consider focusing you energies, at least at first, making the main carriage parts, so that you can do any final fitting of parts to your frame as they are available. The straps especially will likely need at least minor adjustments in order to fit snugly without crushing the parts they are fastening together. I made a stand to support the carriage during construction, which was done at the time, so that you could work on it comfortably standing up. If built on the floor without a stand, you will then be faced with trying to attach the stock and axle box to the bottom of a heavy carriage that is sitting on the ground. Not to mention attaching the wheels to something on the ground. See photograph below. Please note that this stand allows both the stock and the axle box to be installed easily, serious considerations. This is exciting. There are a lot of interesting things people can learn from this project, and the history attached to it. Edited May 28, 2009 by UnicornForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.