forgemaster Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 We just have the pins in the swages loose enough so that the top half can move easily. If I use 24mm dia round bar for the pins I'll drill a 1" hole for the pins , that sort of clearance. We dont use a spring. To put a job in the swages we'll open them up by hand and sit them open by allowing them to sit cockeyed on the pins, (as shown in one of the photos) place our job in them, give a light tap or wriggle the job and they'll fall down shut. The pins are retained in the bottom swages by deeply countersinking the hole then plug welding the end of the pin in the countersink. I'll try to draw our set up over the next week and post it Frosty. Sorry Nakedanvil, hammer envy is a scourge. I have just brought another 5 cwt massey from an auction in Sydney along with a Massey power press. My wife is really starting to get worried, am I like a smoker who just can't say no, "phil theres a hammer here you may be interested in". "Oh ok I'll buy it". Moony and I may be having a competition here. Moony just does'nt realise it yet. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) Thanks Phil, a good sketch is a meatier source of how to info for me. I understand, Grant and to help save you from yourself, I offer the services of free secure storage for all those horribly addictive machines, devices and tools right here where they can't hurt you any more. Envy is such an ugly thing. Save yourself, ship all that stuff here soonest and start yourself on the path to recovery. It's sounding like you might need to think about it too Phil. No, no, don't thank me. I do it for humanity's sake, saving a fellow human being is reward enough for me. Frosty Edited June 10, 2009 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Frosty(stop) Three containers arriving on the morrow(stop) Please have 15,000 lb forklift ready! (stop) Not sincerely, Grant Forgemaster: Yeah, in this business it's important to buy on opportunity rather than need. Most of the machines I bought, I didn't have a need for, but after I had them I always found work for them. Buying on need is for people with deep pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 That's always the catch. You have to have money to buy on opportunity and when you don't have money, you spend more on need. Vicious cycle it becomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I had an opportunity to buy my 5 cwt Massey cheap 3 years ago I couldn't afford to install it till this fall. What I am sure Grant and Forgemaster are aware is how much it costs to install a big hammer. I spent 3 times what I paid for the hammer to put it in and put a new motor on it. Plus I put many hours of work into forming, pouring concrete, leveling the hammer, forging hold down bolts and building a motor mount. Now I just need to find more work for it. I am trying develop some products to manufacture, using it. Here is a picture of my tool holder with 2 sizes of stopper/kiss blocks in it but I think I will be adding a flipout setup to the other end soon. The tool tray over the treadle prevents you from dropping things on the treadle. These are some of the swages I plan on changing over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Frosty(stop) Three containers arriving on the morrow(stop) Please have 15,000 lb forklift ready! (stop) Not sincerely, Grant I'm just thinking of your own good and you mock me?! I'm hurt, crushed in fact. No matter, the offer still stands. My humanitarianism is above such things. Frosty Buying on opportunity rather than need is even more pronounced here than most places in the lower 48. You just don't see many power hammers here. By time you hear about one it's either gone or you don't have the money. I just plain lucked out when I got my 50# LG, it became available at almost exactly the same time a check from my Mother's estate arrived in the mail. A month earlier or later and the money wouldn't've been there. Had it become available later I would've been driving a newer pickup truck and that would've been that. Buying one at need would mean shipping one from outside and shipping to AK is a big expense. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) Here's the system I use.. The adjustable height and angle are not really necessary. Edited June 12, 2009 by nuge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Nuge: Does that rhyme with "judge" or "boogy"? Well thought out. Lose the vise grip, they fly off at the most inopportune times. Been there, done that. I like the tilt control. Made me think of a locking ball and socket for getting things perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Nuge: Does that rhyme with "judge" or "boogy" Sounds like huge. The vise grip works pretty good so far. Any better ideas? I dont like to have stems on all the spring tools and such. The vise grip is also very fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I use two basic and simple ways to hold tools while forging with air hammer. In the first 4 pic's a.b.c.d there is a colar fabricated from 11/8'' square steel that seats free around the bottom die with holes to insert the tools needed The second system in pic's e.f.g.h.i i use a heavy duty c clam to hold the tools Hofi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Hill Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 The larger hammers have larger tooling - so dragging across a flush table seems wise. For a combination of tool holding, cage work(1/2" below die surface), and drop in tooling - I've gone to two seperate clamp cages. One is width, the other is length. Have to figure how to post pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Hill Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Here's a few pictures starting with the table I made & like working with. The width style clamp cage only has a "kiss block in progress" not welded up yet (at time of 2nd picture). I like the clamp cage frames to be 1/4" under die heigt on the ends and 1/2" on the sides for clean up forging after pulling a block or ramp. The 3rd picture is the side clamping cage that allows length wise kiss blocks for forging rail cap, or using long swages, or ramp dies. The fourth picture shows the results of forging length ways to get more even spread than width yeilding more draw. Fifth picture is swaging sides with a long swage and "Loose pins" mentioned earlier in the thread. I find the kiss blocks don't even require the cage to be tight - they'll just bounce a bit when your at height and you can change them out quickly when you don't have to lock them in with a wrench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I thought I would dredge up this old thread because I build a kiss block set up inspired by Forgemaster's. I am using the Clifton Ralph style tooling cage pictured above. I wanted something like the setup Forgemaster made but I wanted to be able to remove it because I often use the dies long ways for starightening things out. My first thought was to drill and tap the side of the cage and bolt it on. But I was too lazy/busy to get around to that. Then this week I realized that I could clamp the tool between the end of the die and the cage so this is what I built. I origionally made the arms too close to the die so there was no room for the round bar that flips the stoppers out of the way but a little work with the grinder corrected that. I also just made the handle for the flipper just the flatbar but there was too much weight in the handle and the kiss block was bouncing. My dies are too narrow to put the stoppers side by side so I just stacked them, the flatbar that holds them just bends to suit whether they are being used alone or with another stopper. I have been really pleased with this setup so far and it seems to work just fine even if the bolt holding the cage tight loosens up. I have been using several of the swages I have that are pinned together. I tried using them like Forgemaster describes above but I have had problems with them bouncing off the pins. Probably caused by me being to heavy on the treadle. I have started welding springs to them as I need them which prevents them from bouncing off, helps in feeding stock into them, gives me something to use to safely lift them off the hammer and it keeps them together in storage. At first I used 1 1/2"x 1/4 but the last one I just used 1"x1/4" and they seem to beworking just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 John, glad you brought this thread back from the dead. Cool stuff you're doing. I like people using the name "kiss block" rather than "stop block", makes you think of it correctly. I hate it when people wail away on them, you can beat down almost any block. Just "kiss" it. Nuge: It's fine if it works for ya. Just so long as you use real "Visegrips", none of the knockoffs seem to get the geometry right. I love seeing all these great ideas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Here's a new outfit for my bigger hammer. I fabbed a 1" hardy hole and in addition to the spring swage holder with rails, I made a square tool post. Works well and is fast. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrismetalsmith Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Looks good nuge. I'm working on making one of those now. What is your hammer, and what size is the die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 She's actually a "striker". Bought it from Larry Lee Langdon. Think I made his boat payment for a couple months, could not get him to budge on the price. Couldn't beat the condition, the hammer looked almost new. Dies are 2 x 4.5 ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 The hammer is great. Not quite as "snappy" as the 33. Same awesome control. It might even be a little large for me. (Did I just say that)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 The hammer is great. Not quite as "snappy" as the 33. Same awesome control. It might even be a little large for me. (Did I just say that)? Just means you can now take on larger jobs! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don schad Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 duplicate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don schad Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Hi all, This thread has been quiet for a while, but for what it is worth I finished a tool holder a while back. This is for a 50# Little Giant. The hardy hole is tube forged down to l" inner square, and tapped for a clamping screw. I can use a full 1" square hardy or a piece of l" flat bent to 90 and tighten it up with the screw. The flats have seemed to hold quite fine thus far. The whole thing is held tight by tapered wedges which go through the hole in the sow block and pull it tight. The bottom die can be removed with out removing the holder. don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don schad Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Tool holder is a big improvement over a C-clamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevan Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 I'm busy fabbing a table type jig holder for my Anyang and the search box brought up this thread. What great ideas and what a great pity that Grant is no longer with us. In one of Grants' posts he comments on planning for his retirement......we just never know, do we? Thanks to all those who contributed to this thread. Kevan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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