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I Forge Iron

very strong steel?


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only if you forge in the breath of a dragon and quench the blade in Virgins blood ;)

or if you are cutting a soft stone like soapstone or talc I'm afraid. Anything containing quartz crystals (i.e most stone) is made of harder stuff than any steel :(

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Hahaha, thats a pip! I read a sumurai book called "Secrets of the Samurai", and it was talking about a sword to be tested on a prisoner. And the prisoner said, "If I knew you were going to test it on me, I would have swallowed some stones!" So I dont think you wanto cut rocks with it.

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why do i get the feeling that i am being mocked? i did not say i wated to make a magical blade, just one of intense strength


Sorry if you feel that people are mocking you but the fact is there are steels that you can make a sword from to cut through stone, but it would have to be so big that you could not swing it. If you want to cut stone use stone masons tools.

Bob
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forgive me, but what i meant when i said shear through stone, i simply meant as an axample, not is purpos, the only other example i cold think of would be to shear through another sword, but i get the feeling, though i can weild one effectivly enough, i dont think ill be in a situation that requires the use againsst onother sword, so i apollogise for not being thorogh enough to explain, it is simply an example of strength. i am sure there are some smiths who use the "break test" in wich they test the durrability of their wares to the breaking point so see how strong it is, i just thought that stone would be a good way to test it. i am quite insulted however to be accused of taking this anyway but seriously.

Edited by Drenched_in_flame
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I worked in the state materials lab some years ago and then another 19 in the geology section as a driller. What you may ask has this to do with testing a sword?

It's about meaningful test methods. Sure you may come up with the end all of all test methods, lots of geologists and lab techs do that very thing. The problem is interpreting results. Sure the "standard" test method may not cover what it should but everybody but EVERYBODY will understand the results.

Another problem (THE problem actually) with using stone for a test media is inconsistency. Stone, even from the same rock let alone same formation or something from across the county or the other side of the planet isn't consistent enough to use for testing. Meaning no two rocks are exactly alike.

Frosty

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There are various ways to scientificaly examine blades. In repeatable methods, that are commonly used around the world.



Place a cold blade, after heat treatment in a vice, and see how far it can be bent over before failure, most quality blades will go over 90 degrees with little cracking. The point where a blade fails is measurable in degrees to compare to different methods and materials.

a Rockwell tester: impacts the blade with a known item at a known pressure to compare hardness.

A round bar (5/8 inch is fine) placed in a vice, cutting edge is pressed sideways into the bar until we see a deformation of the cutting edge, then released. hopefully the deformed steel will return to place. showing resiliency.

The problem with Hitting a rock, is not all rocks are the same, and How much force was used? a human arm can swing with varying degrees of force.


The idea of testing, is to have a test that can be repeated over and over again, by most anyone, and getting the exact same results with the exact same item, therefore being able to Honestly compare non-exact items in a meaningful way.

Edited by steve sells
typo
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If there were no humor this would all be boring. However that said. STeel can do many things and be many things. For one it can in the right mix. hold a fine edge under a lot of uses. And with that ability it may be easy to break if it is bent. If youi make it bend and return to its prior place, I may not hold an edge so good. There are balances and different additives that play into this and a knfe or sord maker takes these things into account when selecting or blending steels for a particular usage. Simple aint it?

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Take a look at high maganese steel, 12-19%, with .5 to 1.5% carbon you get very stong steel that's hardened by cold work, so if you can find any RR track that's has high manganese steel, such as may be used on high load, use and stress as on curves, the top of the track could be diamond cut and may make an excellent very hard and ductile blade.

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This is area where I work.

Manganese Steel is indeed used in railway frog castings but not in rail. My company is the largest producer of frogs in North America and we operate our own foundry to produce them. The casting is typically 12% Mn min. and the carbon is in the 1.2% to 1.4% range. The raw casting is 100% untempered Martensite and is so brittle that it will shatter if dropped. After heating the raw casting to 2000F it is water quenched as quickly as possible (1 minute maximum between removal from the furnace and quench). This creates a material that is 100% Austenite at room material and is similar in structure to Stainless Steel.

This steel is not hardenable by heat treatment and is hardened strictly using cold work. We initially harden the material by using a shaped charge of C4 High Explosive. This is glued to the surface of the casting and exploded noticeably compressing the surface of the part.

Unfortunately, we have never found and effective way to saw the material after it is hardened. Diamond wheels initially will cut but quickly glaze over. The work hardening seems to generate a twinned or slip plane structure and at times transforms from Austenite that is room temperature stable to Untempered Martensite.

The real star of railroad materials right now are the advanced rail steels. The common rail used and marked HH is 0.8% C and .26% Cr. The next step up is the rail marked HE or HCP and it is 0.9% C and .26% CR. The King is curently rail marked HEX or OCP and it is 1.0% C and .26% Cr. Small drops are available.

To have a steel that could produce a sword that could slice stone would require a high percentage of Ferromanurium which would likely make it cost prohibitive.

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Interesting stuff, but I'm a little lost with the "frog", remember, some of us are learning the basics here. I found something about P900 RR tack, in Europe I believe, .05-.08 C, 19.96-17.11 Cr, .1-.39 Ni, 19.97-21 Mn. You might look it up for your bosses and get a heads up on why it's produced and the market. As for cutting, sounds like a lasor cutting machine would be better, the manganese could be what's guming up the works on the diamond blades. Tell us a little more about the RR frogs.

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I am the Chief Engineer of the company and familar with the material you mentioned. Our parent company rolls this material in Austria. It is a rolled manganese rail that is used again to fabricate frogs. It is seldom rolled since the demand is small and minimum rolling are 500MT and it is incredibly expensive, as in the range of 10X to 15x more expensive than carbon steel rail.

In railroads the frog is the device where the two rails cross in a railroad turnout which is commonly called a switch. Correctly the switch is the front part of the turnout. The most common origin of the term "frog" as used in the railroad is due to the similarity to the "frog" in the underside of a horses hoof.

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