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One thing about those siphon nozzles is I believe that their GPH rating is for a given air pressure. I don't know what happens if you turn up the air beyond that pressure. I would expect that at least up to a point you'd get more fuel flow, although I don't know if it might start to cause some problem at a certain point.

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I could only get mine to light and stay lit at +/- 40 psi with the mapp gas torch. I'm assuming that the 5-7 psi comment was correlating to firing into an already hot forge?

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No, it was based on the fact that Hago's gph ratings for its nozzles are rated at 3 psig of air: http://hago.danfoss....33_VDDZE222.pdf The same seems to go for Delavan nozzles: http://www.delavanin...catalog_New.pdf

But if you look at the data for standard nozzles that use pressurized oil, they seem to be rated at around 100 psi of oil pressure: http://hago.danfoss....DF/VFDZB122.pdf

So when BigCotton mentioned 3-7.5 psi to run an oil burner, I assumed it must have been oil air pressure through a siphon nozzle, not a traditional pressurized oil nozzle.

Did you try your burner at really low (5 or less psi) pressures?

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Yep. All it would do was smoke. Mind you This was still when I was trying to light it with the Mapp torch. I dont know if it matters but there was no preheating the oil, and ambient temp was around 70 degrees. I had to do quite a bit of fiddling with it to get it to burn. First, I tried using 1 1/4" pipe with no taper at the end. Then I saw some photos on the net where a guy was using 2". It wouldn't fire at all without the taper on the end.

Edit: Also, my burner was at ground level, and my tank was at +2'.

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i'm pretty sure matt is right on the gph being at a certain psi. i think my nozzles are 1.5 gph at 5 psi. i thin my oil with a little diesel, then light it with a propane torch at 10 psi no preheat. it can be a little fiddly and smoky right at the start. once it gets a little heat built up i turn on the blower and turn it down to 5 psi. with the tank above the burner you may need another valve to fine tune the fuel flow (turn it down). my tank is at the same height as the forge and i have to turn down the fuel with a valve. also my burner will not run in open air unless i use straight diesel.
mark

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Ive got a needle valve between the tank and nozzle. Maybe it was getting too much oil. Thanks for the tips fellas.

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Ok I got a little busy looking for stuff but it seems the conversation has come a long way. I really don't know much about these thinks but to my understanding this oil pump might do what I'm looking to do. I'd really appreciate if one of you with a bit more knowledge on the subject could explain to me how exactly this would work.
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.866/7048

http://heating.danfoss.com/PCMPDF/DKBGPG010A702.pdf Looking at this it would seem that this is a centrifugal oil pump that runs purely off of the rotation of the shaft on the side at the rpm that it's rated for. It also says that the pump is designed to be gravity fed, it seems to work similar to the blower to force the oil out, so I can only assume that it requires no compressed air. With all of this in mind, my question is "If you connect this pump to a motor that matches it's rated rpm's and them run an output line to an atomizing nozzle, seeing as the put supposedly outputs 3gph at 100psi, could you get similar results to using compressed air." It kind of makes since because these pumps are used for oil burners.

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Yeah, those are designed for furnace oil burners. If you got a used burner, you would find one of those on it. There are two main ways to atomise oil for burners. Pressurize the oil and force it through a tiny nozzle, oe pressurize air and use that to draw oil through a tiny nozzle by the venturi effect.

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I'm not at all sure that's going to work without some extra air from a blower, but good luck with it.

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BigCotton, are you averse to using a propane preheat because of the cost, or do you just want to see if you can do it? I used to use wood to preheat my WO casting furnace, it worked well enough but the cost of a little propane is now worth it to me to avoid the hassle. I use Colin Peck's style of burner, just pushing atmosphere through a tube and having the oil drip into the air stream at the outlet. It works great, but as someone mentioned earlier in this post, it for the most part only has one setting - high. I tried a few years ago to use my burner in a tube forge, but had no success. I think it could work though...that was when I was still preheating with wood, and I don't think the small volume of the forge allowed me to get it hot enough with the little wood I could fit in there. The oil would ignite, but then start burning incompletely and pool on the bottom, then burst into a giant flame, and kept repeating itself that way. I currently have no interest in running a forge on oil, so I won't be messing around with it, but I'm pretty sure that method could work with some tweaking and scaling down of the burner (my furnace is probably upwards of 2000 cubic inches). I'd imagine that changing the area of the outlet (your forges opening/s) while in use might give you some capability to stabilize the burner at a lower-than-max setting.

Matt, have you tried this style of burner before? I'm not familiar with the various names you used to describe the burners in some of your posts.

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The burner I built was Colin's (I bought his book), which is essentially a slighly more complex version of the "Brute" burner that Lionel Oliver has on his page.

I have not tried an atomizer burner like he's thinking of building. I have watched lots of folks at BYMC/Alloy Ave. try them. They can work well -- obivously it' s a proven technology, since it's what most commercial oil burners seem to use -- but the only ones I've seen that seemed like they might burn well without a blower were the siphon designs. I'm a little skeptical that a pressurized oil system is going to work in a naturally aspirated burner design (like a Reil burner, but using oil instead of propane). I don't know for sure, though, which is why I didn't try to talk him out of it. :)

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Ok well it's been a few days but I've kind of figured it out. That pump that I posted a link to... well the very next day I went out into my small town hit up all of the scrap yards and amazingly found it for free! Matt, to address what you said, I will be using an old electric leaf blower for the pumps motor. It doesn't reach the 3450 rpm that the pump is rated at but I don't want it at 100psi and with the added air flow of the blower I think it will do fine. My flow regulation will be a ball valve that I'll test different openings for about 1gph. Instead of using an atomizing nozzle I will use a mig welder tip set in a 1/8" x 2"-4" brass nipple (saw an article by popular science where they did this with good results). because of the way the pump was used before I had it in an oil burning furnace there were some odd fittings on it but they were already sealed good and they were free so I worked around them. I'll be working on it for the next couple of days, or weeks, and when I finish it I'll give details and post pictures. Thanks for all the help ya'll! Oh, Dan, it's not so much the price or that I don't like propane; it's more of the fact that I have no real workshop so I have to carry everything into my back yard every time I fire-up and since I'll be using a propane tank to hold my fuel lugging two around is very impractical. Besides, I like in the backwoods of N.C. there is more than enough free fire wood to preheat with.

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Good luck with it. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. I will warn you that you can spend an awful lot of time doing oil burner R&D that could've been spent smithing. :) I hope it works well for you.

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I finally got some work done on forge. budget and tool issues have had me inactive on it for a while. I changed the design slightly but I think It'll still work. At this point I am close to finishing and will hopefully be able to post some more pics and a video of it running but only time will tell. wish me luck guys. 

 

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.. New here and trying to skim through as much info as possible before committing to anything.But it seems the siphon nozzle using delavan or hago waste oil nozzle is the way to go.

 

Thanks

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