Sugestions for my new shop

[Lysdexik]

Hi Guys,
At long last I am moving to a new place, and I am going to build myself a new "HOT" shop, I have heard that you should do your hand forgeing in a semi dark shop, to be better able to judge colours. The only shop I ever worked in, was a very large industrial forgeing opperation, and was lit like a sports arena, because of health and safety concerns. So which is right? I am going to build my 16x16 shop, with a floor of stone dust, compacted in 4" lifts, with an admix of portland cement/flyash, it won't be as hard as concrete but is about three times as stable as a "dirt" floor. I am using steel studs, and fire rated sheathing on the inside. Another question is height, the conventional wizdom for a wood shop is at least 10' so that you can flip a sheet of plywood, can anyone give me a clue about a smithy. i would realy appreciate your input, I am not trying for a perfect shop out of the gate, but I would like to limit the foul ups to small ones. I have seen some posts were people asked what the intended use for the shop was, and the honest answer is "whatever I can handle" but large gates etc, are not realy an issue as I would prefer to build them out of wood, which is my primary occupation.
Paul.
It's not over...untill we win!!!

[David Einhorn]

I built my shop with 12 foot to the bottom of the trusses so that I can cut 20 foot stock in half and stack it vertically at a slight angle in vertical racks. I put wood lofts at the one end of the shop, like those in a wheelwright's shop, so that at that end of the building the ceiling is 8ft with about 3ft high area in the lofts. I installed halogen lights as banks of lights so that I can vary the amount of light. I framed the windows the same 38in width as doors so that if I need to add on to the building, those windows can be converted to doors by simply removing the sills. I framed extra windows and marked where they are inside the building, so that if I need more windows I just have to remove those sections of plywood. I installed garage doors, at both front and back of the building, and 4 walk-through doors, so that I can vary the amount of air and conditions from indoor type environment to the equivalent of being outside with the wind blowing through my hair.

[divermike]

If I had to do it over again, I would make a storage area outside the working area, because that seems to be my only problem, My shop is dim, but I have lights for the times when it is needed, leave room for a metal table for layout, good luck.

[dablacksmith]

i think liteing is something you need to be fairly consistent so when your forgeing you can tell what the steel is going to be able to do by the color.old shops had low lighting because that is what they were used to . also if you have a high intencity lighting the colors tend to wash out...ive been in quite a few different shops and i think the main thing is use indirect lighting .as far as hight to rafters ide go as high as you can within reason. i loved haveing 12 ft to the trusses in my old shop.. my current shop is only 8 ft and limits my options.. good luck!

[Ice Czar]

flyash

the only reason flyash isnt listed as a toxic controlled substance in the US is that the energy companies (worldwide) produce 650 million tons per year
they are now facing regulations on all fronts for their dumping it in landfills (because it leaches out toxic metals) Fly ash contains silicon dioxide, aluminium oxide, iron oxide, and heavy metals including nickel, vanadium, arsenic, beryllium, cadmium, barium, chromium, copper, molybdenum, zinc, lead, selenium and traces of radioactive materials. All of it at a perfect size for serious inhalation.

flyash in concrete is stabilized and a useful additive, but mixed in a dry floor it can leach, become air born with traffic or pounding. Not a good idea, use another benign (slightly larger) filler


http://www.flyash.info/2001/keynote/21meij.pdf (health aspects)

University of Kentucky Center for Applied Energy Research, International Ash Utilization Symposium (IAUS) and World of Coal Ash (WOCA) conference papers

Use of bottom ash and fly ash in rammed-earth construction
(pilot test, and rammed earth isnt a rammed stone floor ) Edited December 7, 2008 by Ice Czar

[Lysdexik]

I was concerned about the content of coal ash too, the fly ash I am using is actualy filter ash from a cement clinker kiln. I sold mining equipment for a while, and supplied pugmills to the flyash "inert fill" guys it's nasty stuff. I love the idea of the door/window frame size, I would not have thought of that until it was too late, thanks!
I have about 30 T8 flourecent light fixtures left over/reclaimed from a previous shop project. I think that consistancy is the key, having loads of light at Brown Lennox was never a problem, but I have never done any welding on my own, and I was fishing for information. My gut reaction is to light it up like a christmas tree, and then if I don't need it, shut some off. Because we did most of our quarry plant fabrication in house, I have a wierd collection of metalwork tools, one of which is a table for layout, but it has a section at the one end with half fire brick and half copper, for welding and brazeing. Bloody thing ways a ton, but I have guarded it like a gold bar, it was picked up from a brick opperation we demolished, and I dread to think what it would cost to build.
Paul
Don't confuse activity, with accomplishment.

[Ice Czar]

;)

my first concern in a custom shop design would be material and equipment handling and storage

at the smithy I worked at, the architectural bias dictated considerable storage of 20' stock and easy material handling from the rack to the cold saw

in my planned studio (still a long way out) I'll be looking at moving large and heavy items on a regular basis, by my lonesome. So a gantry overhead crane is an integral part of the design.

[Jymm Hoffman]

I think that a lot of early shops were thrown together as after thoughts and as cheaply as possible. Not as much thought was put into making them as comfortable as possible as today's serious thought and concern for "ergonomics." But with all research, you can find variations and not all were alike.

I have worked on several different types of floors. I prefer concrete in my shop. 1, it is much easier to clean. 2. when you do drop something and need to pick it up with the tongs, that is the only thing I pick up, not stone, dirt or what ever. No matter what set up you come up with, you will eventually want to change it. Therefore, I have started putting wheels on most everything. Wheels roll easier on a smooth concrete service. Much more flexible. I do like to bolt certain things down to the floor, concrete works better, faster and again more flexible and versatile. Dirt floor requires digging deeper to "plant" something to make it stable. If you do not have a separate finishing "clean room", again concrete can be better. If you sweep it and keep it clean, less dust will mess up your finish, even if it is oil or wax.

Height: my current shop has 10 foot walls, I would prefer 12 foot, but since there is only one truss in the center to interfere with the distance to the ceiling, it is pretty good.

Lighting: I think the dark shop is hogwash and an old wives tale. I also think, that blacksmiths being intrinsically cheap, they did not want to put in windows. They were much more expensive to deal with "in the old days" than today. Plus, relying on sunlight in many places is unreliable. I have recently changed my lighting. I had inherited a lot of florescent lights in my current shop. It was set up for painting a race car. I love a shop that is bathed in light so there are no shadows, but not sun light bright. I certainly can see my colors. Five years ago, I also had changed the bulbs to a full 40 watt Phillips. It was great. As they were starting to show age and my neighbors recently put in some wonderful highbay lights I started looking. Instead of using 28 4 foot 40 watt fluorescents, I am using 4 High Density/Low Bay lights that use 1 250 watt bulb each. They should use less electric and still "bathe" my shop in light. I am getting used to the difference. They are supposed to cause less eye strain, but I did not notice that with my last round of fluorescents. I do not recommend the "economy" 37 watt fluorescents. I don't think I was ever bothered by the pulsation of the good florescent light that bother some people. If I am not totally satisfied with the new lights, someone recommend adding a couple of fluorescents to balance it out. I did move one of the new HD lights away from my electric welding bench as it was too much light behind me (shining in the hood.) I have also painted ceilings and walls white in previous shops. I was happy to find my current shop already with white walls. I am preparing to paint the ceiling white this week.

Stock racks: personal preference and space limitations. I keep threatening myself (prior to my current helper wanting to do this,) to change from horizontal to vertical. I see advantages to both. If you keep material at 20 feet, stay horizontal. I have almost always cut my stock to 10 feet. First out of necessity for transport, plus due to shop space. Also depends on where you locate and cutting device, I tried a chop saw for a while when a band saw died. I only used it for a couple of years before returning to the bandsaw, one of the cheap ones that can be used in both horizontal and vertical. Another very vestal tool. Plus they are quitter and cause much less dust. With the bimetal blades and a little lubrication, they can cut nearly as fast as a chop saw and the blades last as long or longer than the chop saw wheels.

[HWooldridge]

My shop is 24x36 with a shed roof that drops from 12 to 10 feet across the short span. There are six 8 foot-long fluorescent fixtures with two 75w bulbs each. I originally had plywood on the walls but a storm damaged the shop and I replaced the siding with standard white corrugated panel. Not having enough light is a real pain so the white walls and fluorescents are a big help. I was also planning on skylights but changed my mind at the last instant, although I now regret not spending the money and installing them when we did the roof. I agree with Jymm that a dark shop is a bunch of humbug - you can forge weld in bright sunshine once you get used to it. I have 6 large windows in my shop and usually have the sliding door open as well when I'm working. For me, there is no such thing as too much light...

I prefer a dirt floor to concrete but only because it's easier on my feet. The other advantages that Jymm mentioned all apply to concrete but it simply hurts me to stand on it all day. My dirt floor is the natural caliche that was here when the walls went up so I spray it with water every few weeks and that knocks down the dust well. One of the worst things in a shop is grinding or cutoff wheel dust as it is glass-sharp, microscopic and floats around just from walking in the dust so it's easy to breathe a lot more than you should - even more reason to keep it watered down. I also have two lathes and a mill so have to wash them down with mineral spirits and reoil every so often to get the dust off the ways.

My previous shop had a brick floor and I liked it a lot. I was able to obtain a large quantity of common red bricks which were surplus from a job site and decided to use them in the shop. I raked and levelled the floor, set all the bricks into place and then raked sand over the top to fill the cracks. Made for a very comfortable floor to stand on and it stayed fairly level over the years - if an area rose or sank, it could be levelled again pretty easily. However, we moved from that location and I simply used dirt in the new shop when we relocated to our current home.

[Ed Thomas]

If it is at all possible, I would try to build a bigger shop, or at least design this one so that future expansion is not too big an ordeal. At 32' x 60', I often wish I had more space.

I also prefer concrete floors. Forging equipment is heavy enough without fighting the floor to move it around. Controlling dust and cleaning up is so much easier. I put rubber mats around where I'm going to stand a lot. Others put wood down at the hot areas because it stinks less when burned.

My vote is with Hollis and Jymm: You can't have too much light. I have 17 windows and overhead metal halide lights. I still use spot lights here and there to see what I'm doing. It takes no more than an hour or two of forging in new lighting conditions to get the feel of heat and colors and then you're fine from then on.

I went to 12' ceilings -- high enough to be able to hoist most machines and material, but low enough that I'd never be tempted to split it into a second floor. Once you've tried to move machines around in a shop, you realize how important the overhead space is.

[Lysdexik]

Wow! 32x60. I am primarily a woodworker and over the years I have worked out that a shop that is 24x36 is where I am most efficient. I have a seperate finishing space and stock storage, and I dont see me getting BIG in the hot shop. I have an odd colection of tools left over from equipment fabrication days, shears for rod, and angle, a punch, benders, "Fab Shop" stuff. The guy who was our fab manager has a big "Ironworker" and a press break, lathe, etc, and he knows HOW to use this stuff, so if I need precision stuff done he is just a few minutes away, and when he wants forged blanks etc, he comes to me. I realy do the forge thing as a hobby with benefits!
I would like to say this though. I am so pleased to have finaly found a "sounding board" for things, at home in England we just go to the pub (it's not a bar) and there is a group of people who can bounce stuff around. It is healthy to be able to meet people with oppinions - we don't have to agree - Henry Ford said "you are OLD when you stop learning. Whether at twenty or eighty. Anyone who keeps learning stays young. The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young" I appreciate all of your input. Thanks to everyone.
Paul.
It's not over... Untill we Win!!!

[Gary]

I installed windows in every wall, except the back where the forge is, and both the 36" door and my six foot slider have windows. I also installed two skylights (a 10' by 20' shop) and have plenty of light during the day. I only need the flourescents at night or a really cloudy day.