daveninja Posted December 31, 2024 Posted December 31, 2024 Hello all! I've been reading some of the awesome posts on this board and wanted to check a few things before I go too far. First off, my wife bought me a 4 burner propane forge from amazon called the Atkrou. Links are not allowed in the forum I believe so posting some pics of the forge, the container for quench and some tools. I then bought the cart with wheels and some firebricks to set it on. So a few things I'm planning to do I was hoping to get your opinions on: 1) I ordered 16 ounces of Mr Volcano Rigidizer concentrate (makes 32 oz), 5 pounds of Kast-O-Lite 30, and 2 pounds of Plistix 900. The manufacture instructions says you don't need any kind of refractory, but reading this forum that sounds like its nonsense, especially considering just opening the door and moving around the forge made my skin itch... I'll be researching more about application process but should the above be enough for this size forge? Also should I cover those holes on the opposite sides of the burners? I'm thoroughly confused about those... 2) The forge did not come with individual shutoff valves so I have ordered some (could only find male to male valves so I got the female to female adapters you see on the end of the burners. These are all flare connections btw. My hope is that I can use 1-2 burners to start until such a time when I turn into the opening scene of Conan the Barbarian and start making swords like my wife apparently thinks I should. 3) It also didn't come with any air chokes so I'm on the hunt for 1 inch inner diameter pipe (the burners are 0.97" OD). Still not sure how I'll get them to stay put, hoping I have a thought hit me in the shower or something. I tried looking online for these (Mr Volcano had some replacements you could buy but can't find them anywhere). If anyone has any ideas please let me know! 4) the cart is metal and rated for 500 pounds when using wheels, which is what I plan to do, to wheel it outside to use. I added some eyelets to hold tools. Any concerns on the bench? I'm hoping it won't melt on me or something... 5) I think that's it for now. I've only ever taken a 2 day blacksmithing class before but that was on coal (Pioneer Farms in Austin, TX). There is a place an hour away that has a full day forging knife class that I'll be signing up for as soo as I make sure they use propane (Iron Grove Tool Co in Dripping Springs, TX) I know I have a lot more to learn and am grateful for any advice so please let me know I'm missing anything for my plan to get this thing ready to work for me. Oh one other thing I have the Doyle anvil from Harbour Freight. Its at least cast steel and apparently good for the price, as long as you get a good one without gaps that have been "fixed". Mine shows none so I'm hopeful. Thanks for reading Quote
swedefiddle Posted December 31, 2024 Posted December 31, 2024 Good Morning Dave, If you put your locale in your avatar, there probably will be a group in your area, that can help you. You also will probably find a Mentor that can help you learning the Blacksmith Basic's. Merry Christmas!! Amazing the things that happen!!!! Welcome from Vancouver Island, Canada. Neil Quote
LeeJustice Posted December 31, 2024 Posted December 31, 2024 1) Yes on the rigidizer. Then Kast o lite and Plistix finish. I think you know that, though. The holes seem to be allowing for some exhaust, since both doors can be closed. I would close them off and avoid closing both doors. 2) Absolutely go with just one or two burners first. You can use a firebrick to block off the unused portion. Make sure that the unused burners don't get too hot at the connection for the rubber gas lines, they could melt. 3) Drill and tap the choke tube for a wing nut like thumbscrew. 4) It looks like the shelf of the cart employs some plastic or rubber grommets to set the height and hold it into its place. Don't let that part get hot, it might collapse. To be more sure, if you want, put some collars beneath (even metal hose clamps) to prevent shifting/falling. Quote
Latticino Posted December 31, 2024 Posted December 31, 2024 Wow, that is a huge forge. Suspect you plan on forging swords and wanted to also use it for heat treatment. Unfortunately gas forges aren't quite as flexible as coal, so one optimized for sword heat treatment won't work as well for general forging. Quick impressions: Positive: Mr. Volcano burners are a great bang for the buck by all reports (unfortunately I have heard they are no longer for sale). You are planning on encapsulating your refractory blanket (not going to do the math for you, but figure you will want at least 1/2" thickness for the Kastolite shell. You can get the LB/cubic inches from the manufacturer) Metal cart with half firebrick standoffs should be fine (but if it gets hot, mind all that chrome) 1/4 turn, propane rated, shutoff valves are prudent, but you only need one at the tank. For balancing between multiple burners propane rated needle valves will work better. Nice set of tongs. Quench tank should be effective. Doyle anvil, properly mounted, will certainly work. Taking a class in blade forging is a great idea. I would have waited to buy my equipment until after the class... (Sorry, just read you post in more detail and saw that this was a present. A very thoughtful gift, just need to figure out how to modify it for your use) Negative: Forge is much too large for most hand forged products 4-burners will need a lot of propane and your little 20 lb tank will freeze up quickly Extra holes in the shell either need to be plugged or filled with burners. Still need to leave a vent opening for exhaust gasses (see below) but those are hardly in the best location. Running multiple burners is much trickier than single burner. They need to be balanced at the manifold. If you plan on shutting off some and running others, you have to worry about the radiant heat from the hot forge and convective heat from the exhaust cooking your burners Forge door design is awful. Barely better than no door at all. It closes completely, cutting off any chance at venting, opens down radiating the heat from the door right at the operator, has hinges close to the source of heat, and can't be easily operated while forging. If it were mine, I would keep it closed, cut a new 5" square opening in the center and frame same with Kastolite when you put in the liner and then make a proper door to cover that. Quote
daveninja Posted December 31, 2024 Author Posted December 31, 2024 Thanks for the replies and your insights guys! Sounds like I'll be getting a few more fire bricks, 1-2 for the inside to block if off and maybe a few to cover the front of the forge until I get the confidence to cut a new opening. Will probably play around with it first (after prepping properly of course) and just see how it responds. Great call on the plastic grommets, will reinforce or even replace with either pipe clamps or maybe even drill a hole and put in some pins. The shelves are really just gravity set. Sounds like I should also get some more kaowool to plug the holes as I'm assuming kast-o-lite shouldn't be applied without some backer. Again, THANK YOU BOTH for taking the time to respond and help a newbie out! Quote
Latticino Posted December 31, 2024 Posted December 31, 2024 You are welcome. Note that Kastolite can certainly be applied without a backer. I have used a 2" thick Kastolite door (cast into a welded steel angle frame) for around 10 years without trouble. Also note that the more hard firebricks you put into your forge the longer it will take to get up to heat. They have significant thermal mass and are generally poor insulators. If I were contemplating making a internal separator to limit use of parts of your forge till you are ready, I would make it out of Kastolite as well (at least 1" thick). As long as you don't plan on moving it around much it shouldn't even need a frame. One more thing. If you plan on using flux during forge welding (assuming that monster can get up to temperature) pitch the forge down slightly away from that separator. Otherwise the molten flux will collect in the bottom of your forge and migrate towards the seam between the separator and the forge lining, "gluing" it in place. Lastly, the proposed 1 day forging class is good, but can't compare to a full week ABS Bladesmithing intro class. I think there is an accredited school in Texas. Quote
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 31, 2024 Posted December 31, 2024 Welcome from the Ozark Mountains. That is certainly a great gift, however as others have said impractical and wasteful of expensive propane. My suggestion with your wife's approval, would be return it to Amazon, and then order the 2 burner forge. Then use the money saved to take her out for a wonderful dinner and maybe a show. If that won't work you have money for more tools or classes. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.~ Semper Paratus Quote
Frosty Posted January 1 Posted January 1 Welcome aboard Dave, glad to have you. I sure wish your missus had asked us about this before buying it. In the future, telling us the name and what it is is all we need to search it out online without violating the site rules. Oh BOY! Have you guys out there taken a look at the Nelyrho site? These guys have no idea what they're doing other than trying to rake some cream off a market. Their demonstration video shows a 2 burner forge at about medium orange heat and a "smith" wearing a just unfolded, brand new apron giving an orange hot something a desultory whack with a single jack sledge on a shiny new anvil. The company claims they guarantee their products I suggest you get your money back IF possible. The holes in the side opposite the burners are just there. They serve no purpose and even though there is a picture of somebody holding a pencil and a drawing with a pair of calipers in the background there was no knowledgeable thought involved. The best I can think of is the holes are an artefact of cheap manufacture. After shearing the sheet stock, the holes and embossed patterns were stamped in one side, the sheet was reversed and passed through the press again to stamp the other half. The shell was probably run through the press brake twice too. They can pay people Good (for India) wages to handle parts repeatedly cheaper than buying two machines or one powerful enough to do both sides at once. This brings up a common problem with gift buying. If the gifter doesn't know the recipient or craft well enough it's guess work. Beginners in a craft frequently mistake bigger for better, happily she didn't make the mistake of thinking more money means better! If they won't refund your money I'd be tempted to try cutting it in half making two 2 burner forges. And most definitely rigidize and cover the exposed ceramic blanket with kastolite 30!! Kiln washing it with Plistex 900 is an excellent final layer of armor and will let you get rid of the split fire brick running down the center. At worst you have 4 good propane burners and we'll be happy to help you turn the tangle of rubber propane (WE HOPE!) hose into a workable effective forge. Or two. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 1 Posted January 1 3 hours ago, Frosty said: If they won't refund your money Amazon has a very good return policy and refunds money right away. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.~ Semper Paratus Quote
daveninja Posted January 1 Author Posted January 1 All, thank you SO MUCH for all your inputs! I'll talk to my wife today and get the return process started. I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for a good 2 burner forge at or below the price she paid (I think ~$240)? On Amazon I see "Simond Store Portable Propane Gas Forge Double Burner Knife and Tool Making Blacksmith Farrier Forge" and "Double Burner Gas Propane Forge Furnace Blacksmith Knife making Farriers" (same company but rectangular vs oval) Plus some Vevor ones. (You can also tell me to pound sand and do my own research but y'all have been so ready to assist I figure I'd see if you had some thoughts) This will also help me see what extra things I bought I should return/hold on to... Still haven't heard back from the local course so don't know when it will get scheduled. I think the closest ABS school is about 6 hours away so would need to see when that would be in the cards... Again, THANK YOU! oh and Happy New Year's all! Quote
Frosty Posted January 1 Posted January 1 You're welcome Dave, answering questions to help new folk get as thoroughly hooked on the craft is why lots of us hang here. I'll let someone else answer your questions about the other brand forges I haven't been keeping up on them. My natural recommendation is to make one, they don't require more than basic shop tools and skills from burner to put to work. We don't tell polite people to pound sand, especially not friendly polite people. I don't have so many friends I can afford to run one off. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
Latticino Posted January 1 Posted January 1 Unfortunately I am also not familiar with inexpensive commercial forges other than to say that typically they need to be looked at as kit pieces to build your own upgraded version. If the actual cost of that forge was below $300, and all the burners work decently, it might be worth considering modification of what you have rather than another purchase. Good luck. Quote
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