Researcher Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Hello! I would greatly appreciate any help that folks could give regarding a hand wrought iron candelabra made in late 1942 in Ukraine for an aviation unit. The bottom of the candelabra has the casting marks of the foundry "КЕРЧЪ. Г.М." followed by what appears to be numbers. I did some online research and the letters translate to Kerch GM. I think the numbers after the letters are 3.19. The Kerch Metallurgical Plant was a large metal production facility in Ukraine, founded in 1900. This would fit, as the fighter aircraft squadron associated with the candelabra was located in the Ukraine. I can’t quite figure out what ГМ 3.19 (or GM 3.19) stands for. I’ve looked for translations of Russian acronyms, but nothing fits. I haven’t been able find anything specifically related to iron production, but I have found that acronym associated with some other items for sale and it seems to mean type #, series #, or something like that. I assume iron plates would reference the type or quality of iron? It isn’t the thickness in millimeters, because using my calipers I find that it is 6.5mm thick (about 1/4”). Maybe it references the grade of iron? That factory also made a lot of armored plating and railroad tracks. Any assistance on this item or where I might find further information would be much appreciated! (Sorry, I do not seem to be able to load photos with my post.) Thanks, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 Welcome from the Ozark Mountains. To load pictures, if you look down at the bottom of the editor window where you type your message, there is a paper clip with Drag files here to attach, or choose files. On my laptop, I open the window where my pictures are and drag & drop them to upload them here. Large pictures have to be resized as there is a restriction on picture size. The "Read this first" thread gives good directions on that. If the picture is on my phone, I email to myself and then save it to the computer. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.~ Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewoon ik Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Where is alexanderr? Our russian resident of the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Kerch GM could mean "General Machine or manufacture, merchandise, etc. 3.19 could be a transliteration of a gage # and not a dimension, Or it could be a product # but it's mighty short for that and product, model, etc. #s rarely have decimal fractions. However transliteration which is all computer programs can do is often very misleading if "accurate." One of my favorites from a couple decades ago was an ad for Chinese made, "Water sheep." The transliteration being, Hydraulic = water and a Ram is a male sheep. Enjoy the search and please let us know what you find. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 Good morning, Crimea in general and Kerch in particular was one of the major iron producers for the Tsars, then the Soviets, due to its strategic location on the Black Sea, which has made it important to shipping and trade going back to at least the Greeks. The ironwork there started largely for ship works, then converted to other things as their needs changed, so there would have been multiple metalworks and foundries. I can't help you with the Cyrillic gamma, but I would tend to think that the M is likely an abbreviation for metalworks, which also starts with an M in Russian. I'm not about to try and spell it even if I could figure out the ASCII for it. No telling on the numbers, but could also be dates, or even the military unit it was for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 Hello. If the word Kerch is written the way you wrote it with a "Ъ" at the end it means that the inscription was made before 1918 year. In Russian, this sign was called "yat" and it was canceled to writing in 1918. If the word Kerch is written like this: "Керчь", it means that the inscription was made after 1918. The "Ь" sign is called a soft sign and means that the letter after which it stands is pronounced softly. If the word Kerch is written like this: "Керчь", it most likely means that the candelabra was produced at the State Metallurgical Plant - Государственный Металлургический Завод (Г.М.З) located in the city of Kerch If that's true, then the number 3 is not a number, it's the letter "З". It's an acronym for "Рlant" (Завод). Then the number 19 is the year of manufacture. There should be two more digits: 19** . Sometimes only the first two digits of the year were cast on castings. The other two digits of the year were applied by hand. By using hand stamps. It's unlikely the chandelier was made in 1942. The factory was evacuated in 1941. Kerch was liberated in 1944. In the same year it was decided to restore the plant. A photo of the branding could clear up any ambiguities. The photo shows the factory mark on a rail made at the Kerch State Metallurgical Plant ( Керчь Г.М.З ) in 1932. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 Excellent Vladimir, thank you. Even if the original poster doesn't come back I sure appreciate picking up what I just learned. The Cyrillic alphabet has always been confusing to me and reading about it only made things worse. I knew someone on the forum would answer the question eventually. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewoon ik Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Cool we have 2 russians/russian speakers here. Interessting, the alphabet changed after wo1. You know the reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 I believe there was a bit of a slight change in the way the country was governed...a slight change...just a nudge. Same way the metric system came out of the French Revolution or people started deliberately using different spellings for American English post 1770s and 1812. Nominal reason provided was to modernize the language by cleaning up the alphabet. There are other theories, but those swing into some rather nasty politics, real fast. Priviyet, cok de la? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 20 hours ago, Frosty said: Excellent Vladimir, thank you. Even if the original poster doesn't come back I sure appreciate picking up what I just learned. The Cyrillic alphabet has always been confusing to me and reading about it only made things worse. I knew someone on the forum would answer the question eventually. Frosty The Lucky. Thank you, Frosty. I happened to see this post and thought I should help. I don't actively participate in discussions, but I do read the forum. 12 hours ago, gewoon ik said: Cool we have 2 russians/russian speakers here. Interessting, the alphabet changed after wo1. You know the reason? The Russian language was reformed after the 1917 revolution. Reform had been in preparation long before. The most significant development was the removal of the "yat" sign. There were very complicated rules for writing it. The Russian language has become much easier to write since the reform. 7 hours ago, Nobody Special said: I believe there was a bit of a slight change in the way the country was governed...a slight change...just a nudge. Same way the metric system came out of the French Revolution or people started deliberately using different spellings for American English post 1770s and 1812. Nominal reason provided was to modernize the language by cleaning up the alphabet. There are other theories, but those swing into some rather nasty politics, real fast. Priviyet, cok de la? You are absolutely right. The revolution of 1917 triggered many fundamental changes in Russian society. Some of them with a plus sign and some with a minus sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Researcher Posted September 24 Author Share Posted September 24 Good evening! Vladimir and others, I cannot thank you enough for this information. This extremely helpful! My apologies for my delayed response. The lettering is like this: Керчь. So it is post-1918. The second part of the date after 19 is missing. The original piece of iron this was made from must have been shortened; perhaps a portion of it was used to make the decorations on top (wavy arms of the candelabra and/or the candle cups). I assume that this was made from repurposed iron, since it was presented in October 1942. It was made for a German aviation unit stationed in Ukraine, so it makes sense that it would have been constructed from locally available materials. Perhaps you guys can answer another question. There is a mild copper sheen that appears under the blackening when I look at the piece at certain angles. It is especially noticeable in the oak leaves and the grooves in the candle cups, and also on the top of the shield. A friend of mine who does other types of manufacturing said that after forging the pieces, the iron could have been flash-coated with copper and then chemically blackened. Hopefully you can see what I mean in the photos I'm posting. I'm including some with and without flash (the piece looks much better on its own without flash). I'll also include a photo of the bottom with and without flash. Without flash, it is dark black and hard to even tell the forge marks are there. The letters and numbers are very clear with the flash. By the way, the little airplanes do not react to a magnet. I assume they are acid-washed brass or something like that. As enthusiasts of ironwork, I hope you all find the piece interesting. I think the workmanship is fantastic. Thank you again for your help, insights, and expertise! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted September 25 Share Posted September 25 Hello. That's a great piece of work. Thank you for the pictures. I think you're right. The base of the chandelier is most likely made of a piece of metal soviet time with a mark. Judging from the photos it is most likely that some parts of the candlestick are made of brass. For example, airplanes and oak leaves. There is no shortage of brass cartridge cases during wartime. Perhaps later or maybe immediately the brass was painted. It's unclear how the airplanes are attached. Probably riveted on. Could you take good resolution photos of the airplanes to determine how they are attached? I think everyone would be interested. Also a photos of the candle cups from inside and underneath? There is much to learn from such excellent work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Researcher Posted September 27 Author Share Posted September 27 Hi Vladimir, Thank you! I'm really enjoying the research on this piece. Almost all the parts are magnetic, including the oak leaves. The only pieces that are not magnetic are the planes, the small acorns at the bottoms of the oak leaves, and the round feet that the iron plate sits on. I think you are right that the planes are brass. The acorns and round feet appear to be aluminum. The planes appear soldered on. I'm attaching additional photos. I used the flash for most of these to make it easier to see details, although it distorts how the piece really appears to the naked eye (some of these don't include a flash; you can tell the difference in appearance). I think it is interesting how they attached the little acorns. It seems like they could have just soldered them directly to the oak leaves. But instead, they connected them to a wire in the back. Nice touch. Please let me know if you would like me to post other pictures. By the way, you can still see old candle wax that has dripped over various parts of the piece. All the best, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 Good Morning, With 6 Airplanes, I understand this is not meant for a Church. Is it just a fancy way to light up a room, before Electricity? and Smoke Alarms LOL Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 Hello Bob. Thank you for photographs. They show everything perfectly. This chandelier is a great example of blacksmithing and metalsmithing. The entire chandelier is assembled on screws. The candle cups are secured with screws through the bushings. The plates under the cups appear to be made of brass. It looks like the cups are soldered to the plates. The airplanes are soldered to the cross, most likely with tin or tin-based solder. Nice work. Heated for soldering carefully so the airplanes soldered on the other side wouldn't fall off. The cross is most likely soldered to the shield. It's just not clear what kind of solder it's made with. You're right, the acorns seem to me to be soldered to the oak leaves. If the acorn stems are made of aluminum it was hard enough to do that. Aluminum is very poorly solderable because of the strong oxide film on the surface. The chandelier was most likely made as a gift. You can see an attached plate on the base. There should be an inscription on the plate. It is unlikely to have been used for lighting on a regular basis. The airfields were usually quite far from the front line and had electric lighting. Could you take another picture of the oak leaf attachment areas if it's not too much trouble for you? It looks like the oak leaves are soldered on too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Researcher Posted October 1 Author Share Posted October 1 Hi Vladimir, Thanks very much for the comments! Yes, I think you are right about the cross being soldered to the shield as well as the oak-leaves being soldered to the bottom of the arms that hold the candle cups. I also think you are correct about the cups being soldered to the plates, although it must have been very carefully done, because it is hard to see any solder. I took some close-ups of these things. The plates under the cups are magnetic, so I assume they are iron. The acorns are attached to wires that run along the back of the oak-leaves. The wires are soldered to the reverse of the oakleaves. (You can see the reverse of the oak-leaves and the wires in my previous pictures.) Both the acorns and the wires they are attached to are non-magnetic. There is a little wear to the finish of the edges of the acorns, and the metal underneath appears to be aluminum ..... or maybe it is something else that is non-magnetic? I assume the wires are the same material as the acorns. This piece was indeed presented as a gift in late October 1942 to a member of the squadron who was departing. It was definitely a ceremonial item. The shield is the same as that used on the planes of III. Gruppe of JG-54. Cheers! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Hello Bob. Thanks again for the detailed photos. The oak leaves are most likely soldered on. Acorns are made up of three parts. The stem of the acorn is soldered to the calyx. Then the top part of the acorn is soldered on top. The acorns and stems are most likely made of brass. What you've mistaken for aluminum is the top layer of tin. Either specially coated or during soldering. In one of the photos you can see the brass on the acorn stem from under the paint. I think you're wrong. The emblem of Jagdgeschwader 54 "Grünherz" (JG 54) was a green heart. Most likely the chandelier was made in the workshops serving the Luftwaffe Fighter Group II./JG 52 The emblem of Jagdgeschwader 52, JG 52 was a red and white shield with a sword in the middle. Luftwaffe Fighter Group II./JG 52 was based at the airfield near the village of Bagerovo (45.378148, 36.293716) in 1942-1944. It is 14 kilometers from the city of Kerch. The pilots of this group flew Messerschmitt Bf-109 fighters. On the chandelier are single-engine airplanes. Most likely the owner of the candlestick was a fighter pilot. It may well be that this candelabra belonged to Erich Alfred Hartmann, the most efficient pilot in the history of aviation, or Gerhard Barkhorn, the second most efficient pilot in the Luftwaffe. They both served at this time in Jagdgeschwader 52 at Bagerovo airfield. The candelabra is exceptionally well designed. There are three airplanes on each side. The three airplanes made up the unit. Note the parallel short and long stripes on the base of the candelabra and on the wavy bands. I believe they depict the markings on the navigation ruler (see picture). With such care and attention to all the details of the chandelier, I think that the number of crosses stamped on the wavy parts most likely represents the number of planes shot down. You can count the number of crosses and then it is likely that you will be able to identify the owner of the chandelier. Internet should have data about shot down airplanes by each pilot by years. All the data was recorded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Researcher Posted October 3 Author Share Posted October 3 Hi Vladimir, Thanks for the follow-up comments. I can see where the acorns could be brass instead of aluminum. That makes sense for soldering. Interesting thought about the number of crosses representing victories and the baseplate representing a navigation ruler. I had not considered either of those points! I'll have to look into that further. Cheers! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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