sbrothy Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 I hope this is the right forum.... I'm not really aiming at making a living out of this. At least not until I've acquired a lot of experience and verified that this could amount to more than just a hobby. Nevertheless, where I'm at (Denmark) there doesn't seem to be a place I can pay to use (which would have the benefit of proper supervision, as I'm aware that a lot of the tools of this trade are downright dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.) Be that as it may. I'll just have to set up (hobby-) shop myself then, and buy the things I'll need one at the time. Lucky for me I'm a former programmer (yeh I can imagine what you're thinking here ) and as such I'm used to patiently reading manuals. I wouldn't dream of using potentially dangerous equipment without familiarizing myself with the manuals and optionally seeking the advise of people more experienced than myself. I realize having access to the right fire extinguishing equipment is also important. Most of my questions will probably be about which tools are essential and which aren't. I mean, just off the top of my head: could a laser replace a plasma burner for instance?Stupid questions like that. I promise you I wont kill myself and I'll make sure the proper insurances are in place before I make my first beer opener or whatever.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 An industrial laser capable of cutting anything thicker than thin sheet is a very serious and expensive industrial machine that would require a LOT of power. I have never heard of one being used in a home setting. Even plasma cutters are pretty serious for hobby level use. Even for a small set up you are probably looking at costs in the thousands of dollars/euros amount. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbrothy Posted May 29 Author Share Posted May 29 I've seen them pretty cheap but yeah that may mean the power output isn't up to the task. What I really meant was can a laser (if it's powerful enough) "weld" iron together as well as cut it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 Yes, there are industrial laser welders. Some setup replace spot welding some replace mig or tig welding. None of those machines are something you would find in a hobby shop. In many cases they have a higher overall production cost that the process they are meant to replace and are specialty process for specific applications. That’s not the thing to be thinking about to get started. Build a JABOD (just a box of dirt) forge. They can be built for whatever solid fuels are readily available to you very inexpensively. If you can get your hands on an anvil at a low cost great. (They seem to be lower priced in Europe.) If not, try to find a good sized block of steel to use. (The Viking made swords on small stake anvils… not much more than 200mm cube of wrought iron with a spike on the bottom rammed into a stump.) Find a hammer around 750g to 1kg. Can be an old ball peen, cross peen, or engineers hammer. Personally, I have a wide selection of hammer types, but I find myself using a ball peen most of the time. Then track down some mild steel maybe 10mm square stock. Cut it into lengths maybe 500mm long. That’s long enough to hold one end while heating and forging the other. If the end you holding starts to get warm just dunk it in a bucket of water hand first, cooling your hand and the portion you holding, while not pulling too much heat from the end you’re forging. (I hope the image in my head is reflected well in my description…). There are a lot of items that can be made in this way. Tongs can be made from this method, but you would probably want to use larger starting stock, maybe from 15mm square stock. Once you have some tongs you can start thinking about using salvaged coil springs to make hand held punches, fullers, chisels, etc. (I’m not sure how one would process coil springs without tongs, but I’m sure there’s a way.) I got started down this path after I came home and found my son (at the age of 13) built a forge and anvil on his own. His anvil was a salvaged sledgehammer head with one face up in a bucket of concrete and bucket forge. He spent maybe $40US on the whole setup and we were hooked. (The forge was awful, but it got us going and we quickly built a JABOD of sorts.) Basically, don’t put a lot of worry about buying fancy equipment till you know you really enjoy it. You’ll be amazed at what can be make with a very simple low cost setup. The skills developed with a simple setup are priceless! One of the best things you could do is to find a mentor. Look for a local Blacksmith organization and check it out. Most like someone will take you under their wing and give pointers that will greatly reduce your learning curve. Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 Good Morning, Welcome from Canada!! My friend, John Little who lives south of Halifax, on the other side of Canada, did a Demonstration for CBC(?). He used giant Mirrors focused on one spot, He Forged by using Sun Rays as his heat source!! He had to Forge with a welding mask on. What David is saying, is correct. I started by using a Wood Furnace, in the basement of our home. You can Forge by using a campfire!! I actually have a Forge made for wood, that I made from an old Bar-B-Que. Don't think Hard, think Simple!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbrothy Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 Sounds reasonable. I am definitely overthinking this in terms of equipment. I’ll take your advice and scout out a place in some industrial part of my hometown and set up shop there. Maybe start with a coal forge and a blowdryer or something like that. Learn the basics and work my way up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hefty Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 While I wouldn't usually recommend youtube videos so early in your smithing journey (any fool can make a youtube video and some of them are downright wrong and dangerous!), there are some that many people here will agree are accurate, safe and good quality. Black Bear Forge (John Switzer) and Tobjorn Ahman both have reputable blacksmithing youtube channels and both have videos (John has a small series of videos) on effective but low-tech, low-cost methods and starting setups. But I second David's suggestion: get a mentor. I haven't been able to find one close to me yet and I regret that I haven't put more effort in to find one. There's only so much you can teach yourself when you don't yet know what you don't know! Cheers, Jono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 A friend of mine went to Sweden to work for an Axe Manufacture. I know he travels around Europe for Blacksmith Events. Instructing and friendly Competition. I'm sure there are people who get together in Denmark. Patience and asking questions will find you answers. With all the Ironwork in Scandanavia, there will be a group!! We have had people from Great Britain, France, Germany and Switzerland come to Canada for CanIRON, One was a School Principle/Teacher. There must be at least a small group in Denmark somewhere. Somebody will do the 'Special Jobs' in a Shipyard or a Fabrication Shop. Talk to them. Talk to your local 'Art Council', ask, Who works in Metal? Good Luck, Neil Hefty, Get in touch with Glenn Moon. His health is doing a dance, but his noodle is always working. He is in Braidwood. Pm and I will give you his email. We had a few Aussies stay with us in 2006, after the ABANA Conference in Seattle. There are more connections. I know Australia is a big piece of dirt, but so is Canada. You may not live close to someone else, but you can stay in touch. Every now and again, you get together. Mooney used to have annual get-togethers at his Shop at home. The Fires went through his area and went around his property. No Fire Damage for them. Better than a Lottery Ticket that doesn't work. LOL Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Yes, you're definitely overthinking this. All you need is a hot fire, something to beat against, a hammer, a couple bottom tools and something to beat into submission. Beyond that, a bar shear is handy, a torch set is always handy, a good table or bench to hang a leg vise from and a bench vise. That'd be a pretty luxurious kit. My traveling kit was a small 70lb. +/- home made anvil, pair of tongs a masonry chisel, a cold chisel, hack saw and a 2lb. drill hammer. I had access to pipe wrenches and stuff in the drill rig's tool box. For general smithing I worked on the face of whatever heavy block of stuff was handy. Boulders work a treat. Below is a shot of me repairing a log tong that got bent and twisted. No, they really aren't designed to be used with a back hoe. I'm using a wood fire blown by a 12vdc mattress inflator blower. My anvil is a birch round and that is my favorite 2lb. drill hammer. My point being, don't get caught in the same corner newcomers to any craft find themselves in too often. Don't spend good hammer time hunting for the perfect tools and in your case especially. Don't look for tools to do the work for you, they're nothing but extensions of YOUR WILL and your hands are already the best there is. Well . . . Don't grab the HOT part! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 That's a great picture! And yes, don't grab the hot part. Even if it's black. Ask me how I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 6/1/2024 at 2:14 AM, CrazyGoatLady said: Ask me how I know I am think we’ve all done that at some point… I just had a long Saturday of helping beginners and I had to keep saying “you’re in a blacksmith’s shop assuming everything is HOT!” Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 I try to to hesitate close before I touch a piece of steel. It's one of my favorite shop habits but dang if I don't get burned anyway. Just less often. Yes, you most certainly can feel if something is too hot to touch without touching it once you get the reflex trained in. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Back in the 60s when I was working in the steel mills I was taught to test or touch something that you were unsure of re heat with the back of your hand or fingers. That way, if you were burned it would not be as bad as something on the palm or the front of the fingers. One guy had grabbed an uninsulated steam pipe to swing under it and had taken all the skin off his palms and fingers. I still use the technique in both the kitchen and shop. Impress a useful habit at a young age and it sticks with you your whole life. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeJustice Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 George, I have been familiar with that method, but I understood it to be for a different reason; the back of the hand is more sensitive to heat. Imagine a really calloused palm, fingers sensing heat vs. the softer backside of the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 The back of your hand is more sensitive to heat but it's an unnatural position when reaching for something. The skin between your fingers is even more sensitive and I never pick something up with my fingers held together. With my fingers relaxed there is a space between them and it doesn't matter what position my hand is in if I hesitate I can feel heat or cold. Whatever works best for you hesitate a second before taking hold of a thing. Of course if you go ahead and burn a finger tip at the beginning of a session it will be really sensitive. Not that I recommend that technique but BOY can you feel heat from a distance on a burn. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 13 hours ago, Goods said: I am think we’ve all done that at some point… I just had a long Saturday of helping beginners and I had to keep saying “you’re in a blacksmith’s shop assuming everything is HOT!” A great big yes to that. Man, I was filing a horseshoe something or another I was working on and what did I do but reach out and grab that thing full handed. Just cause it's black doesn't mean it ain't still hot lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojo Pedro Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Dang- me and Frosty are brothers!, and yes that is Alaska 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 2 hours ago, Frosty said: The back of your hand is more sensitive to heat Ike Doss showed me how to test for heat in a piece of black steel. Especially useful if wearing gloves. I hover over the piece with my fist closed with the inside of my wrist, like where you would test for the temperature of a baby's bottle. If it is cool open hand and pick it up. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Cool, what brought you to the Greatland, Pedro? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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