fat pete Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 I have some brass rods and flat stuff. I was trying to work it and I handled it like copper...heat it and quench it then hit it....it splintered, weird, like wood almost .... so i tried it not heated it would dent but then also splinter....i had it in the fire for maaybe 20 -30 seconds and it didnt melt (red hot coals no yellow in the fire) can any one tell me a little about brass workin ... I wanna use it for decorative rivits and eyes stuff like that..... thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Pete I went into the Blueprint area, Didn't find anything in there that can help you. Maybe someone will chime in.. I wish you luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Workability of brass depends a lot on teh actual metals in the composition. I have run into some that you can work hot easily and others that are totally unworkable in the forge. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theimi Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 hi... on Anchor Bronze and Metals, Inc. (no, i don't have any relationship to them) you find lots of data and tables about all copper, brass and bronze alloys with chemical composition, material-, mechanical-, physical- and fabrication properties (e.g. cold working and hot forging properties, how to weld .... a.s.o.) very useful hth frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle Brooks Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 I have forged brass and I believe it was a "naval" brass. Ill have to double check. Though the only time I had it splinter was when it work hardened. Forged it in the low reds and is super soft and also used a gas forge so I can clearly see it and let it heat up a little more slow and even. Working it in the low reds I kept forging it until the heat was gone and not letting it work harden to the point of splitting.heat it and quench it then hit it....it splintered, weird, like wood almost Thinking about it now I never quenched the non ferrous metals, just let them air cool. I am curious why you would heat it, quench (in water right?) and then try to forge it. If its splitting while forging then I would have to guess it is work hardening and cracking. There is a brass that is not recommended to be forged. It escapes me, maybe someone else knows what it is called. Anywayz hope it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Pitching the hot non-ferrous metals into water is called annealing. It make the metal soft for working again. Air cooling makes it soft just not as soft. Hot forging copper and brass is a lot trickery then cold forging steel. I have found that it is best worked cold unless you are working large stock then you can work it hot but cold work then anneal when it won't move anymore is the surest way to go. Brass can be difficult if you start to shape it before you anneal it. The biggest problem with brass is the zinc in it. I had some old brass that had some lead in it and shaped very easy for spoon bowls but you know the bug-a-boo of lead and food handling items.:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian C. Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Naval brass is what I have used with some success. Rich Waugh uses a lot of Silicon Bronze with great results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted September 19, 2008 Author Share Posted September 19, 2008 some good answers thx...maybe i didnt get it hot enuff n maybe i should use the propane forge....so u guys think it wasnt annealed enuff...I will work on it....u know it acted a little like aluminium..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollhammer Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I used some 1/4" brass rods from Home Depot to make wings for a mild steel bodied dragonfly. I took multiple attempts to avoid blobs of molten brass on the floor of the brickpile, but I did eventually get it to work. I had to pay real close attention to the colour and how the stock started sagging. In my attempts, if it started sagging and acting like play-dough, it was too late. I finished the charcoal forge a couple of weeks ago, and tried the same process...very unsuccessfully. I lost a lot of brass and didn't get anything done. I shut everything down early and in complete disgust and decided that brass was better done in a gasser, with vigilant observation...at least with my limited experience and skill. Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Whats a good source for flat pieces of brass or copper? My step son wants to make something like a Chinese coin. A round piece with a square hole in the center. I'm assuming all the work should be done cold on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollhammer Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Take a piece of copper water pipe, cut down one side, and unroll it flat. Door plates work pretty good too. The ones I've found are usually brass, and a bit thicker than water pipe. I believe there's an online site that sells sheet brass and copper too. I can't remember the name right off hand though. You could probably get away doing it with a hole saw and file the pilot hole square. Or punch the center out rather than filing it square. Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted September 19, 2008 Author Share Posted September 19, 2008 I was told that some brass just isnt forgable only machinable....I have a pile of this stuff my pop liberated from a machine shop he used to work at...I have copper and alluminium from there also.... I appreciate the discussion and as I find out more I will continue....thanks for your help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Mulholland - Tetnum Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 um i would try and hold off on the heat most here have herd of paw paw and no brass is not galvnization BUT if you over heat it you will end up with molten copper and gasious zinc oxide(that will kill you)and it is cumliative in the body we all value your input here so please be careful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Brass does have a lot of zinc in it, up to 30% in some cases but if you work it until you hammer start to bounce back a little then anneal it you find that it is an OK metal to work with. It is not as much fun a copper but still nice. Bronze is better since it is tin based it works a little better but they all work harden so still need annealed, heat until they start to color up to red then drop in water. I you get much hotter then that you are way to hot. Sometimes it is just best to go until the metal turns all black and then drop it in the water. You want to have a good loud sizzle when it hits the water. Most folk over work the brass, copper, bronze or silver and create internal stress cracks so that after it is annealed they have it come apart on them. Don't over forge the cold metal. One marker to tell you if you have cold forged to long is if little flakes of metal are popping up you have gone to long without annealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted September 19, 2008 Author Share Posted September 19, 2008 thats cool bentiron....i am goin to try with the propane....i feel more confident not puddling it that way my coal forge is outside so I cant get a good read on the color.....I had it sizzlin tho in the quench....I have used the same stuff to pin things like knife handles.....it shines right up tho ...nice....thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 In some of my early sculptures I used 3/8" to 1/2" brass rod for rivets to hold 1/2'' steel plate together. Looked real nice. I would put them at about 2"o.c. and then beat them mushroom shaped. No heat needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 There are several alloys of brass. As a rule only navel brass SAE#73 and forging brass SAE#88 are recomended for forging. # 88 is copper 58 to 61 % lead 1.5 to2.5 % iron max. .30 other elements .50 % the remainder is zinc. Other types of brass are cast and will not generally forge. The brass you have is most likely not meant to be forged. All the smiths that I know use silcon bronze when they need a copper alloy in their work. Sorry but your brass may not be what you want I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welder19 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I have never forged brass or copper but I have done quite a bit oc casting with them, the zinc in it will vary depending on the type of brass you have and isn't really a health issue unless you over heat it and you'll know it when you see a yellowish smoke and residue, DO NOT breath it, but if you don't over heat it you should be fine but I would still recomend doing it outside or if you really want to be safe then wear a respirator. welder19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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