I teared up today.....

[oakwoodironworks]

Anvils have a way of showing up when you least expect them. Ask everyone you know if they know where you can find an anvil. Often times, you can find one right under you nose. As an example, I ask a guy I know who is out and about as a tractor mechanic, to keep his eyes open and let me know if he ran across any blacksmith tools. He showed up at work today with a 150lb. Swedish anvil in pretty good shape (pritchel hole messed up by torch cut but real good face)and asked me where I wanted it. The funny thing about it was I asked him to look for tools, not go on a buying spree. He bought a couple of welding tables, engine stand and a floor jack and got the anvil thrown in for good measure. I have another friend who works for a welding supplier and he was given a 200lb Arm and Hammer anvil just because he asked what they were going to do with the anvil sitting in the corner. I looked for a long time before I found my first anvil, so don't give up. Right now, I know where a 275lb. Peter Wright anvil is sitting in an old garage under a couple inches of dust and bird poop (owner can't make up his mind what to do about the old tools and tractor parts), an almost brand new 300lb. Fisher anvil and factory stand sitting in a shop waiting to be rented out with the building (dosen't make sense to me) and a friend who has 500lb. Hay-Budden anvil sitting out in his yard as yard art (he didn't want to sell it because it belonged to his grandfather, but did say I could borrow it when I first started blacksmithing. Didn't take him up on his offer because I couldn't see trying to move it around just to borrow it). So keep looking. You never know what you might find

[forgeman]

Hey Guys , Anvils are no different than old cars , guns , coins , stamps or any of the thousands of things people collect . Lucky for us in the U.S.A. a lot of guys fought and died so we could have the chance to earn a living and spend our money on things that make us happy . I am happy for the guy with 1000 anvils , he worked or his ancestors worked and made some money and he is spending it on what he likes , (way to go ) . To the guys that want one anvil to use in your blacksmith shop , I ask how bad do you want one? There are several companys that are producing high quality anvils both in the U.S.A. and overseas . with the cost of other "hobbies " running in the thousands and even cable t.v. at 70.00 a month and smokes at 5.00 a pack . even a stocker at wal-mart could save a 1000 .00 dollars for an anvil that will last a lifetime . Forgeman

[chyancarrek]

Hey Guys , Anvils are no different than old cars , guns , coins , stamps or any of the thousands of things people collect .

Not so much - Old cars, guns, coins etc have their value and appeal in BEING collectables. There aren't too many folks buying a 57' Chevy as the family daily driver or using a rare coin to buy a soda. The functionality of the things you mentioned have been replaced by a vast selection of modern versions at a level the average consumer can afford - the items collected don't have a negative availability impact on any given community.

No one questioned the "right" of anyone to buy whatever they want - just the motivation behind it. How many PW's or Hay-Budden's of the same size does one person need in their collection? Blacksmithing is about sharing knowledge and the resources to keep our craft growing - when a smith (or collector) hoards multiple pieces of the same tool, it hurts the community.

Indeed, you can purchase a new anvil - but they're prohibitively expensive. Most people get into smithing on a shoestring - having more of the older equipment available provides a broader price range to more people trying to grow into the craft. No one is suggesting anyone make their tools available at prices below what they paid (or not make a profit) as some philanthropic gesture - just simply make them available.

So much quality equipment ended up in the furnaces during WWII and much has been lost to neglect and misuse that older "heritage" quality smithing tools have become a finite resource - having a significant number of what's left end up being stacked in the corner for "bragging rights" is a nothing short of a shame.

[psilogen]

I am happy for the guy with 1000 anvils , he worked or his ancestors worked and made some money and he is spending it on what he likes , (way to go ) .

I can somewhat respect his accomplishment if he worked his whole life in order to snag those anvils, but if he's buying with daddy's trust fund or a massive inheritance, then he may as well just be some schmo who won the lottery and said "gee golly, I really like them iron blocks, I better get 'em all!"

[ironrosefarms]

chyancarrek, exactly...

I have no problem with a collector, but the collector I spoke of is very prideful and a braggart of how he takes advantage of people. When you figure a guy buys an anvil away from an auction at $5 a pound, that isn't a sin... I do believe though charging someone $8 a pound for that same anvil the next day then bragging to folks how they "duped the sucker and made $450 dollars off the deal" for a 150 pound sway backed anvil. That is where I have the problem. It is wrong no matter how I try and slice it...

It is a true shame too that a number of guys (or gals) who are searching for an anvil loose hope as they see anvils go at auction for far more than the normal market would bear. I think this in the long run negatively effects our craft and how people view blacksmiths in general (this guy claims to be one, though I don't see evidence as such). Now if we could somehow reach out to all of those frustrated folks looking every weekend for an anvil and hook them in to this site maybe we could convince them that they could make do with something other than a genuine anvil and give them a good start???
James

[BlackCrowMetalsmith]

I can somewhat respect his accomplishment if he worked his whole life in order to snag those anvils, but if he's buying with daddy's trust fund or a massive inheritance, then he may as well just be some schmo who won the lottery and said "gee golly, I really like them iron blocks, I better get 'em all!"

If someone is doing something I believe is wrong on some sort of fundamental level, it makes no difference to me how hard they've worked...

[matt87]

Just to play devil's advocate here, has anyone considered what we do to anvils to be wrong? Most of the anvils that we use are over 100 years old. They're antiques, and due to the two world wars and the decline of the craft, there aren't many left. Anvils may be designed to be pounded on for a long time, but our anvils may have come from a century or more of daily use, then be used by us. Metallurgy and heat treatment wasn't always like it is and accidents happen. Chisels slip, hammers miss, hardy tools jam and break heels, welds fail. Careful as we can be, we can only reduce the preservation and quality of our anvils. One could say that collectors are preserving anvils for future study.

The guy who goes duck hunting with a 1900 Browning Auto 5 every day of the season or the woman that carries a Webley-Fosberry revolver for protection is no different to you or I using a good old anvil. People might collect it, but we can easily damage it. There are modern alternatives, but their quality is possibly unmatchable once you reach a high price. Besides, it's grandma's shotgun and she put food on the table with it for forty years, or grandad's revolver that helped keep him safe in France in 1918.

As mentioned, new anvils aren't cheap. They are good value considering their projected life, but they aren't cheap. But there's a lot that a smith can do on an 'improvised' anvil. London, American, Italian, German, Hofi and all the other patterns are certainly not the be-all and end-all of anvils, they're just one way of adding convenient features to the core tool, a big chunk of iron for pounding on. Look at the Brazeal brothers' Easysmith for instance, or the vast majority of anvils until roughly the 18th century in the West. 'Most anyone can make an Easysmith for not much money, and it has a table, a butcher and two fullers. Add a stock stand, a bickern and a small home-made swage block and you've got the functionality of a London pattern anvil with the basic tools, for a much lower cost and a higher portability.

Perhaps collectors hate us.

Edited September 17, 2008 by matt87

[chyancarrek]

Ironrose,

That's just plain ol' simple greed. It's also a real strong comment on how dysfunctional that fella's outlook is. Unfortunately there's no shortage of folk who will gleefully stick it the next person down the line.

has anyone considered what we do to anvils to be wrong? Perhaps collectors hate us.

Perhaps they do. But they're collecting an item that maintains a significant viability within the community that uses it. Older anvils and other smithing tools play a key role in how our craft is kept alive - isolating them from the folks that could be advantaged by them does that community a disservice.

Sure they can be misused, and some are, but the craft does a pretty good job of maintaining a tradition of how to best use and care for the equipment that supports us. Look at how many anvils have been brought back to full potential by repair and refurbishing.

If we relegate vintage smithing equipment to the status of just being collectables, not only are we removing a source of viable tools but we disconnect ourselves from a participatory role in keeping the history of our craft alive.