Wrought question

[M3F]

Hello.  Looking at some pieces from other makers, some wrought items have a distinct layered pattern when etched. Does the WI need to be cut, stacked and welded to achieve that look or will working/drawing it out do it?

That's pretty much it. I've read through the forum about everything WI and think I have a better understanding of what I have. It seems to be more refined to me.  It works at lower temps without splitting and the tear test showed a tight string cheese look.

Here is a few pics of what mine looks like as is for g-whiz. Any observations are welcomed.

[ThomasPowers]

Old bloomery wrought iron starts out as a bloom that is a pretty nasty mix of iron, slag, ore, furnace wall, fuel, etc.  You take that and consolidate it as "Muck Bar".  (It can be very mucky---the worst blooms we have worked were consolidated on a wooden stump with a wooden mallet to keep it from "splashing" when hit.)  Take several muck bars and forge weld them together and forge them down and you get Merchant Bar; which was what was commonly sold.  

If you take several Merchant Bars and stack and forge weld them together and forge out into a bar you get "Singly Refined Wrought Iron" repeat for Doubly Refined and repeat again for Triply Refined Wrought Iron.  I've noticed that every culture that used the bloomery method seems to have come up with pattern welding.

Also a lot of scrap Wrought Iron was "busheled"   stacked and welded into a recycled bar.

Now later processes didn't do as much "stack and weld" stuff and so doesn't show as much pattern.

[George N. M.]

Yes, wrought iron has a "wood grainy" structure because of layers of silicates in the iron.  You can often see this structure in rusting patterns or when broken by bending it will look like a piece of broken green wood.  I am sure that is what you are seeing in your samples.  Wrought iron will also give a distictive spark pattern on a grinding or cut off wheel, straight spark lines with little or no secondary or tretiary bursts.  No stacking and welding needed.  Also, wrought iron is rather easier to weld because the silicates make it sort of self fluxing.

BTW, where in the Buffalo area are you?  My in laws lived in East Amherst and I spent a lot of time in the area, mainly up and down Transit Rd.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

PS Thomas has described the process by which the silicates get layered in the metal.  So, the "stacking and welding" occurs in the manufacturing process.  The more "refined" a piece the finer the grain of the silicates.

[M3F]

Thanks for the input, yes I read what Thomas wrote in an older thread. Very helpful.  I'll work what I have as is then and see how it comes out.  I am in Clarence, a baseball throw away from Transit. Small world...

[M3F]

UPDATE. 

Here are more pics of an untouched sample after a long etch. I'm also having a full spectro analysis done. The PMI gone showed the following. 

Zn 1.22%, Pb 0.37%, Fe 94.97% +/- 1.55

I'll update again after I get the spectro analysis. Just curious what you guys think. Thanks!

[Goods]

It certainly looks like wrought iron, but much more refined than any that I’ve worked…

Keep it fun,

David

[Fallengreek]

Following the question of welding different materials. I have a question that I haven't found many solid answers to. Has anyone ever tried forging 625 or 825 inconel to 1095? I have access to inconel scrap sheet and wondering if this would work for axes and tomahawks with 1095 or other tool steel as an edge. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark mountains. I've not heard of inconel metal before. A Google search didn't bring anything up either. However when I searched using site:iforgeiron.com in the search string it brought up some threads like this one.

 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Fallengreek, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you'll have a better chance of meeting up with people living within visiting distance and many questions and answers are strongly location specific. 

I'm surprised Randy, I searched "Inconel" on Duck Duck Go and got several pages of hits, this is wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconel

Dad spun a lot of Inconel and Monel for the aerospace industry, Inconel is an extreme environment material with a high melting temp and very chemically stable at all temps. We used to have to spin it at high yellow heat depending on the part. Holding torch was one of my jobs and doing so spinning Inconel meant looking sunburned for a couple days. Dad spun the sphere on top of the state capitol building in Olympia Wa. from Inconel in the 1940s I believe and it's still shiny when they rinse the bird dropping off it. 

Yellin Studios forges a lot of Inconel where bright work is desirable, they might answer your forge welding question.

Perhaps if you could clean the oxide layer off and prevent it forming again a "mokume gane" diffusion weld might work. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

Inconel is a trade name for a nickel-chromium (small amount of iron) alloy used in corrosive and high temperature environments environments.  I have no idea of how well it may forge but it is supposedly dificult to machine and weld.  I suggest trying and see what happens.  I suspect that you would have to forge at a very high heat and that you would have a narrow heat window in which to hit it.  Also, I suspect that it probably would not harden with traditional iron and steel heat treating.  Experimentation would tell.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Simian]

His first hit at 4 mins in had me laughing out loud  

 

[JHCC]

On 2/2/2023 at 5:50 PM, Frosty said:

Yellin Studios forges a lot of Inconel where bright work is desirable

Monel?

[ThomasPowers]

My take: "I'm going to make a big deal about not doing my basic research ahead of time."

[BillyBones]

Seeing as to how we were talking about layers and etching of wrought i thought this may be of interest. I have neve worked much wrought in my time so i have been working with some small pieces as of late to try. Here is a peice that i have been cutting pieces out of. It has been laying on my tool box for a while and i think it is pretty cool how the different layers have rusted and you can see them.

[ThomasPowers]

Good example of "Merchant Bar".