Repairing an anvil

[Rgpracer]

Good morning from Wichita KS.  I am new to iron work.  I am 65, retired military and have bought my first iron.  Love to learn so will be building a home shop "small" forge soon and will be needing help with that soon.

 

For now, bought an anvil (I assume a 70lb cause or the number 70 under the snout?) and need to know a little about how to repair some of the nicks on the edges.  Is there anyway to track history/origin of an anvil? I bought it at an auction of an old farmer in Hutchenson KS this past weekend.  

As stated earlier, I want to build a small forge for small "hobby" home projects and the anvil will be awesome.

Is there a place (link) to information I am seeking?

Thanks for input

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Ray

[Steve Sells]

I dont see anything needing repair

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

1 hour ago, Rgpracer said:

Good morning from Wichita KS

Howdy from eastern Oklahoma and welcome to the forum!

happy thanksgiving to you too!

I agree with Steve I wouldn’t bother with any repairs on that dude, it’s not really in the bad of shape, you can make a hardy for anything you need a sharp edge on,

As far as history goes, that looks like a Vulcan anvil to me, if so it’s American made cast iron base with a tool steel top, 

anvil history can be found in the book called (Anvils in America) by Richard Postman

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Ray, glad to have you. Telling us where you are once isn't going to stick an anybody's memory longer than opening the next post. If you'll put your general location in the header it'll be on every post  you make and you'll have a much better chance of meeting up with people living within visiting distance. Every hour spent with an experienced smith is worth as much as days trying to figure it out yourself. Lots of opportunities and answers are location specific.

There is plenty of good edge on your anvil. "repairing" or "restoring" anvils has ruined far more than it's improved. You can't weld on the hardened high carbon face without risking damage in the HAZ. 

Give a shout out when you're ready to start on the rest of your shop gear, there are all sorts of forges and construction methods. 

What would you like to make? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Shainarue]

I can't quite tell - but is the pritchel hole filled in or is that just a trick of the lighting?

If it's filled in - my question for the others on here is - How should he go about clearing it out?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark mountains.

That anvil does look a lot like a Vulcan and the "snout" is the horn. Vulcan's do have the approximate weight cast into the base. The best way to confirm that is to put it on a bathroom scale. Most that I have seen also has the year cast in also. My Vulcan has a 10 cast in it weighs 110 pounds and 43 so it was made in 1943. The nice thing about them is they are quiet anvils.

It also might be an early Fisher. Did the stand come with it and can you read the plate on the stand? The only proper way to repair the edges is by this method.   Anvil Restoration

However the cost to do that would exceed the value of the anvil and like Steve said, I don't see anything needing repair. It looks like someone has filled in the pritchel hole on the heel by the hardy hole, which can be drilled out.

[JHCC]

Welcome!

As others have said, "repairing" the edges is likely to cause even more damage. I would recommend smoothing off any sharp spots (leaving the face alone as much as possible) to minimize the risk of cold shuts. If you need a crisp corner for something (such as forging a set-down for a pair of tongs), you can use a block of steel with a stem that fits the hardy hole.

[Rgpracer]

5 hours ago, Shainarue said:

I can't quite tell - but is the pritchel hole filled in or is that just a trick of the lighting?

If it's filled in - my question for the others on here is - How should he go about clearing it out?

Thanks for all your input.  I am excited to learn more and more about anvils and forging.  What is the pritchel hole for and what is the other hole next to it for?  It is punched I believe and clear.  I notice the some anvils have a "shoulder" at the base of the horn.....why do some have and some have not?  I will attach a few other pictures.  Everyone has added great opinions and appreciate it.

[Frosty]

The round hole is the Pritchel hole and used to punch holes. What it does is bolster the stock you're punching so it isn't deformed by driving the punch through.

The square hole is the hardy hole and is used to hold bottom tooling and is named after the "Hardy." A hardy is a chisel standing on end on the anvil you use to cut stock on by driving it onto the hardy's edge. There are many kinds of hardy, Hot are thinner for driving into HOT stock. Cold hardies are shorter and more obtuse to take the increased forces of driving cold stock onto the edge. Both are cutting tools. Hardies can be curved, single edged, called "Butchers," etc.

Other tools with a square shank that fits the hardy hole are properly called bottom tools because they're on the . . . bottom!  They're commonly called hardy tools, same same. A bottom tool can be any shape bottom die you need, from hollow half cylinders called "Swages" used to refine the shape of forged round sections or reverse it so the half round is convex on top of a wedge shape and it's a "Fuller" used to draw stock in one direction. If you imagine laying a pencil on a piece of clay and pushing it in you'll see how the clay mostly moves perpendicular to the pencil.

If by "shoulder" at the base of the horn you're referring to the step between the face and the horn, it's pretty common feature though not universal. Lots of old timers used the step as a chisel plate and the 90* corner as a swage of sorts. A much better cutting plate is to lay a piece of sacrificial mild steel plate on the anvil face to cut on. If you drill a series of different size holes it makes a bolster plate for punching holes with les distortion than using the pritchel.

I say harsh things to anybody that even looks like they're going to take a chisel to the step on one of my anvils. 

I think that's about it for a quick rundown.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

In your last picture the square hole under the heel is the hardy tool hole. A hardy tool goes in that hole with a square shaft to hold it snug. There all sorts of hardy tools. In that picture the hole that looks to be oval and is filled in at the top is used for things like punching holes in stock so the punch has a place to go when through the steel. I'm sure others can describe them better than I.

I see Frosty beat me to the post and did a better job.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Irondragon ForgeClay Works
Frosty beat me to it.

[anvil]

Wow, to me your anvil looks rode hard and put away wet,  with no good edges, dings on the face and a huge saddle in the middle. It even looks like someone welded up the pritchel hole, or broke something off in it! I would not hesitate to reface it following the procedure posted above. To have a welding shop do it is iffy to say the least for cost and quality reasons. Too often, a shop doesn't know about anvils and will use an improper rod and usually done with the best of intentions. Sometimes a local or state smithing organization has refacing workshops or may be able to turn you on to other smiths familiar with the process.  Finally there is you and your skills. If you can weld and have the equipment, then go for it. If not and you are challenged to DIY, then at a minimum, rent a welder and bottles and teach yourself how to run a bead. Then follow the instructions above (Anvil Restoration) and go for it. It takes a lot of time and experience to become a "good" welder, but it doesn't take much time to learn how to run a bead and follow directions for a one off project, even refacing an anvil. 

[JHCC]

11 hours ago, Frosty said:

A bottom tool can be any shape bottom die you need, from hollow half cylinders called "Swages" used to refine the shape of forged round sections or reverse it so the half round is convex on top of a wedge shape and it's a "Fuller" used to draw stock in one direction.

I'd be a bit more general in my definitions that Frosty: a "swage" is any shaping tool (top or bottom) with a concave working face and a "fuller" is any shaping tool with a convex working face. They don't have to be round: swages and fullers can be V-shaped, half-hexagon, ellipsoid, etc, etc, etc. One of the beauties of blacksmithing is that we can make our tools to fit the job, so you'll see some pretty wacky tools out there that people have used for all sorts of specialized operations.

15 minutes ago, anvil said:

rode hard and put away wet

Yeah, that's in pretty rough shape. Yeesh.

[Rgpracer]

Thanks Frosty for the time you took to write all of that....it is greatly appreciated.  I really enjoy learning new things.

Ray

55 minutes ago, anvil said:

If you can weld and have the equipment, then go for it. 

Thanks Anvil, I can weld and have a welder (although it is a mig and not a stick) and have some "moderate" skills.  I downloaded the instructions "Anvil Restoration" and will read and watch video's a lot if or before attempting it.  We have a local blacksmithing club and plan on attending a few times and soaking up info.

Thanks again Sir.

Ray

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Here is an example of a Hardy bottom tool (fuller) I made for a special purpose. Notice the square shank that fits into the hardy hole.

 

[Rgpracer]

On 11/23/2022 at 8:20 AM, anvil said:

Wow, to me your anvil looks rode hard and put away wet,  with no good edges, dings on the face and a huge saddle in the middle. It even looks like someone welded up the pritchel hole, or broke something off in it! I would not hesitate to reface it following the procedure posted above. To have a welding shop do it is iffy to say the least for cost and quality reasons. Too often, a shop doesn't know about anvils and will use an improper rod and usually done with the best of intentions. Sometimes a local or state smithing organization has refacing workshops or may be able to turn you on to other smiths familiar with the process.  Finally there is you and your skills. If you can weld and have the equipment, then go for it. If not and you are challenged to DIY, then at a minimum, rent a welder and bottles and teach yourself how to run a bead. Then follow the instructions above (Anvil Restoration) and go for it. It takes a lot of time and experience to become a "good" welder, but it doesn't take much time to learn how to run a bead and follow directions for a one off project, even refacing an anvil. 

Thanks Anvil, I can weld and have a welder (although it is a mig and not a stick) and have some "moderate" skills.  I downloaded the instructions "Anvil Restoration" and will read and watch video's a lot if or before attempting it.  We have a local blacksmithing club and plan on attending a few times and soaking up info.

Thanks again Sir.

Ray

[Rgpracer]

Well, after reading everyone's post, being warned about "quoting" (I really do apologize) and internet reading about pritchel holes, hardy holes, termenology (horn, not snout,  thanks Irondragon) restoration and the process of it.....I don't believe my anvil is worth much.  My Friend gave this to me as a gift, bought at a farm auction in Hutchenson KS ($90).  I think I can still use it, make some different hardy tools for different small projects.  My Friend did not know (nor did I) that anvils could be so complex.

As Anvil said, it has seen better days.

We have a blacksmith "club" in Haysville KS and will attend to inquire and ask questions.

Thanks to all and again, I apologize to moderators for not reading everything before posting, I did not want to do wrong just jumping in.

Thanks to all.....if you think the anvil is salvagable, please let me know.

Ray

Ps........I cleaned it up a lot, don't see any names, words, part mark's/casting mark's, just the 70 on the front.  Also, I did the "bang the hammer" on the face and it is a dull thud, NOT a high "ting".....I think that tells me that quality is not there.

If I have any of this wrong.....I have broad shoulders, just let me know.

Thanks

[Frosty]

Yeah, I'd rebuild it and I'm generally against taking the chance but she's in need.

Have your heart medicine handy when you see the price of Stoody or other suitable hard facing rod!

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

The problem is a mig welder won't lay down a large enough bead and I don't think the wire will be correct. I would look at renting or borrowing a good stick welder and getting the Stoody or equivalent  rods in 3/16 th or 1/8 th in.

[JHCC]

They do make hardfacing MIG wire, but I don’t know how much it costs or how appropriate it is for this application. 

Addendum: not cheap. The first result in a Google search is a 25 lb. spool of 0.35” Stoody 101HC-G for $488. However, given that your anvil still has all its steel plate, that might be sufficient to rebuild the edges and fill in the dents. This is hypothetical, though; I’ve not actually done this myself. 

Second addendum: found a couple of listings for 10 lb. spools for about $175-$225. Still not cheap, but slightly more reasonable (if it’s enough wire for the project).

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Ya but, I was thinking how many passes would have to be made to equal 1 pass with a 3/16th stick.

[JHCC]

Sure, but how thick do you need?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Depends on how deep that saddle is and the edge work. I just googled Stoody mig welding wire and it is available in .045in. But a 33 pound spool runs $351.78 U.S. + the .045 tips.

.045" Stoody® Super Build Up AP-G Hard Facing MIG Wire 33 lb Basket (Flux Core)

[JHCC]

That raises the question of how big a welder one has; mine maxes out at 0.35”.

[Rgpracer]

Is the Anvil worth it guys?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I think my Hobart Handler does too.

It wouldn't be worth it to me. You still can do a lot of rough work with it and the hardy & pritchel holes will come in very handy.