Finally finished new forge!!

[Pigsticker]

 Well not yet...is this gap around the burner tube on top of the forge ok. Is it gas safe, heat safe, KAOWOOL safe. The t at the top left of the pic mixes air into the propane, I believe.its windy as heck today and I'm having trouble keeping my flame going. Now that it's hot it's better. Is it possible that those two big circles might be breathing the wind that blows me out. I tried to cover the forge openings with bricks but kept getting blown out. Is it the big t in my venturi blowing out my flame and if so how can I best shade the wind. Into the t, 45 degree, 90 degree or coffee cup n tape etc. Many thanks 

The bottom pic is at 7 psi rolling 

Tues 12:20pm

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

The gap between the burner and burner tube may or may not be OK depends upon the burner and if it needs secondary air or not. Our forge needs it with a Gaco kiln burner. Wind will definitely effect an NA burner especially if it is blowing in the T air intake. Did you build the burner and if so what plans did you use for building it?

[Mikey98118]

3 hours ago, Pigsticker said:

I'm having trouble keeping my flame going. Now that it's hot it's better.

This is a brand new forge. Cat refractories only begin to dry in the first few days they sit in your shop. Then, their remaining water, which is chemically locked uo in the refractorie must be driven out as steam, while you carefully use the forge at lower temperatures in short bursts; temperatures and duration gradually increase, as less steam is exuded.

During most of the first firings, so much steam is formed, that it interferes with (and can even snuff out) the burner flame(s). Tough this process out; don't be in a hurry, and you will avoid cracking the refractory. You did drill a tiny hole in the bottom of the forge shell to aid in releasing steam ftp, the refractory's outer surfaces, right?

[Pigsticker]

Ifcw it is a cheap venturi that came in an eBay  w forge  in a kit under $80dlvd. It is the original burner ( except I replaced exactly the 8" pipe and I've taken the 2" to 1" conversion flare ( increase) at the bottom 

M yes I have a hole. It was someone's odd ******** idea to harden the shell of my forge. Sounds ridiculous but it took three brand new bits to illuminate and convince me. Drilling hardened metal is 30% of the reason I'm recoating so quickly. This layer of kol is over what was a once fired layer of kol and matrikote installed in haste and thus poorly. It had a few large cracks but I learned a lot in doing a poor job and think this one's good. I say this because I know this patch was far less extreme than the initial "full lining". ( Only put on in small increments etc). I did see steam shoot out from under the forge twice 

Thanks 

I'm trying to make sure after all this 3layer forge treatment it's at least kaowool safe 

Tx

 

 

 

[Frosty]

Does that burner have a 1" mixing tube? It seems most of the guys on the internet building and selling burners don't understand what RATIO means 8:1 doesn't mean 8" unless the mixing tube is 1" Dia. If that's a 3/4" tube then .75 x 8 = 6" a 3/4" NA burner should have a 6" mixing tube. A LITTLE longer is okay but don't go overboard.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Pigsticker]

This is the adapter that's from 3/4" increasing to 2". So I think it's 3/4", but it is huge compared to pvc 3/4"

The pipe is 8", but with an inch to screw in the bottom and top, it's det, it measures 6" gap. If it'll just be like a stovetop in in it's efficiency I'll be happy, or I put the pipe in extrA two inches long on purpose. I thought backing it away from the forge was a new safety step to keep the 2 large airholes from the fire and keep the fuel hose from getting to hot if I leave the forge hole around the burner open

[Pigsticker]

Wouldn't it make automatic heat increase to increase the size of the tube. It does say 3/4 on this tubes receipt also.

Tx

 

 

[Pigsticker]

It's not lighting, but I have a t-shirt in the holes. Wind is steady 20 so I can't tell if it's just my lighter doesn't work orr something "else". I can definitely smell gas when I open it. Would something like earmuff shapes work better to block the wind. Last one do healthy gas forges get blown out by strong gusts if they get blown through openings, like blowing out the flame by the base of the flame only.

Sorry, that was long. Tx

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

You have to block the wind without sealing up the air intake T just a shield like sheet metal about an inch away from the openings should work.

[Frosty]

Randy's right, you  need to leave the air intakes open but block even light breezes. I made a wind screen from old locker shelves screwed together at 90* and a piece of 1/8" x 1/2" strip stock across the corner as a stiffener. A V shape works better than something flat, it redirects air around rather than blocking it and causing turbulence. 

Just keep trying things till you find one that works. Blocking the air intakes with anything will inhibit the burners.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Pigsticker]

Thanks guys. I wrote the last ones fireside optimistically. ,

1 can you blow out a forge with 20 mph gust if it's well tuned. I've seen a turkey drier blow out but it was howling outside. I ran with my forge to a more wind protected spot where I got it running unmolested, so.

2 Is a properly tuned burner smooth or does it sputter some. Im afraid to spend time trying to tune a perfectly calibrated burner or waste hours over a poorly running but tuneable forge. 

4. Is all this tuning the difference in 40 degrees over or under 2600 or the difference of 1200&2300 degrees. Like does tiny burner movements in or out of forge effect a 50 degree range. I'm really not trying for anything "optimal" just functional.

5 I did last "low" heat torch burn in on kol today and noticed the "big" 3/4" tube got warm after about 10 minutes. Can that kind of heat cause a problem rising through the burner cause problems. It wasn't scald me hot but getting in to over 400 degree temp. I could seal the burner in w matrikote if I know it's doing well enough to set. Tx again

[Pigsticker]

To clarify 3 above. Is the forge being blown out by wind in burners airholes, from wind blowing through the forges front to back openings, air blowing down the side of the tube and through the opening around the tube.(Less than 1/3" gap) or could it be all three. I've seen lighters just blow out but had hóped the force behind the rumbling burning would keep a forge lit. If gas is explosive how can it get blown out.? Thought the spark of ignition was "faster than light" (explosion brevity)

Thanks guys. I wrote the last ones fireside optimistically. ,

1 can you blow out a forge with 20 mph gust if it's well tuned. I've seen a turkey drier blow out but it was howling outside. I ran with my forge to a more wind protected spot where I got it running unmolested, so.

2 Is a properly tuned burner smooth or does it sputter some. Im afraid to spend time trying to tune a perfectly calibrated burner or waste hours over a poorly running but tuneable forge. 

4. Is all this tuning the difference in 40 degrees over or under 2600 or the difference of 1200&2300 degrees. Like does tiny burner movements in or out of forge effect a 50 degree range. I'm really not trying for anything "optimal" just functional.

5 I did last "low" heat torch burn in on kol today and noticed the "big" 3/4" tube got warm after about 10 minutes. Can that kind of heat cause a problem rising through the burner cause problems. It wasn't scald me hot but getting in to over 400 degree temp. I could seal the burner in w matrikote if I know it's doing well enough to set. Tx again

[Pigsticker]

 it crossed my.mind this am the tube that shoots flame from my burner is probably hot due to Proximity to blazing forge instead of the heat rising from the flame at the tip. if it doesnt matter even better. i know not to get a cherry but letting the tube get to 500degress over an active forge wouldnt be a people burn hazard in in my eyes? good morning all and thanks. Tgif I think 

Pig 

Remember, he who wants freedom must strike the first blow.   F D

Tx

 

[Frosty]

Yes, a 20mph gust certainly can blow a T burner out, I have to put a windscreen on my shop forge in almost any breeze, 2mph causes it to sputter. That's either on the burner or in the doorways. 

The burner on a turkey fryer is a multiple outlet burner like a ribbon burner. "Ribbon" is just one shape of multiple outlet burner. The T and mixing tube I use on the NARBs are literally the same ones I use on the shop forge. When testing I unscrewed them from the floor flange mounts on the shop forge and screwed them into the thread protector mounts on the NARBs.

Those ribbon burners are amazingly stable in breezes up to around 15mph before effects are noticeable. A breeze in the doorway will effect them though due to back pressure. 

Yes, proper tuning can easily make 500f difference, over 1,000f in extreme cases.

Your burners are getting hot largely because of how far they extend into the forge. We've talked about this already, I won't beat you up with it here.

The mixing tube will get warm through IR radiation but not very. The fuel air flow cools it to say cooling cup of coffee temp. This isn't universally true but is generally.

Ever touch something 500f?

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Pigsticker]

500 is residential kitchen temps, should live ( I'm not talking about getting it harpooned in a love handle, just accidental touch burns).  The pic shows my interpretation of where I've interpreted to set the tube for burning with nothing attaching to end increasing in size.. it doesn't appear to build up enough tip heat to melt the tube as  long as I keep as much out as possible 

2 nd pic is good as possible to portray where burner is forgewise internally.  I can matrikote around the tube to reflect the heat back down. I tried to say earlier that I don't think enough heat is at the top of the tube where the flame comes out to melt  the hood again. The hood now being the unflaired end of  said tube (8" long x big looking 3/4" pipe that's flame end of forge.

 

This is exactly where the tube goes into the opening and where the fire come out of the tubetx

[Frosty]

Hood? Do you mean the Flare on the nozzle end of the mixing tube? The mixing tube on a 3/4" NA burner should be 6" long, 6 1/2" is okay but not ideal.

The depth into the liner you show the end of the mixing tube in pic 2 is deeper than the end of the flare should be. 

You have ONE problem with your forge burner and you keep doing everything BUT address it. I know I've asked before but when are you going to show us a pic of the burner WITH the flare on it. Preferably laying on the bench so we can see what you're working with.

Have you ever touched something 500f? It tends to stick to you so you have to peal it off, all the while driving the burn deeper into your flesh. Those painful burns you feel while frying bacon are typically in the 350-375f range.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Pigsticker]

I don't eat the swine but you feel the under 600s when you touch it immediately. There to 1000s you should feel it before you touch it. Real heat is typically determined by pace length and duration of the body's normal movements to gouge out a meaty heat hole without notification. I think it's nice to know when it's happening. I'm having trouble with pics today but I think it's the same place in pic one and 2. I changed some pics so I'm not sure. If these pics show it too low I can easily put the tip at the set screws. I can go higher too need be 

Tx

And 2nd pic is of the outside off the forge laying on its side. It looks like the inside tx

And can you use matrikote as a brick glue or do you need to be thinking surface bonding cement?

Tx again

 

[Frosty]

Did you edit the pics in your last post just to make any references I made above meaningless? Nitpicking my analogies is less than helpful as well. So, go ahead and keep over hot things around, it's your hide. 

Without telling a long story or making explanations of why you have to do it your way. Tell us what I've been telling you about how far the flame end of your burner should penetrate the liner.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Pigsticker]

Smoothed out with matrikote, illustrated above, is what I've heard. This shows the roof of the forge from the inside. Around the tube/ burner end in the pic above is where Im thinking about stuffing kaowool to maintain my reflected heat. Skip the where does the burner  go question, does anybody know why I would or wouldn't seal this junction.

Tx for reading

 

I edited photos above because it said to save Greg by no big pics somewhere in the 101 and I had 7 new and old photos all on the post. ( I finally got him and mod 42 distracted. The temp thing wasn't nitpicking. Its always seemed like whatever youre willing to say ouch to will hurt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Frosty]

 Understood.