CameronSeiger Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 For starters I would like to say this is not a Paris of plaster and sand mix forge. i picked up some fire Bricks from a local tractor supply. And laid them in an ammo can. (Basically using the ammo can as an outer shell) I am using a Bernzomatic TS8000 head connected to a 20 pound BBQ tank. This forge can get metal cherry hot when the flame is directly on the metal. For example I can heat up a 3/8 bolt head in two-three minutes but the thread section does not change head. I layered the bottom of my ammo can in some fine sand and then put my first fire brick on the bottom. I filled any of the gaps between the ammo can and the bricks with sand. Maybe this is where I went wrong? I hope someone can maybe give me some pointers on how to improve my forge. Thank you guys in advance -Cameron S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Hard fire brick is a heat sink. It will take a long time to heat the mass and then it will start to radiate heat back into the forge. When we talk about “fire brick” or “soft fire brick” for forge building we are talking about insulative refractory bricks. Different animal. Fix that and then let’s see what else we can refine to make your forge effecent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronSeiger Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 Charles Stevens: ahhh the learning curves. To a website we go! Thank you for the info -Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Welcome aboard Cameron, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you'll have a better chance of meeting up with members living within visiting distance. Someone who knows how forges work and can give you some hands on help. Nothing beats learning in person with someone experienced. Ditto the fire brick issue Charles brings up. I suggest Morgan Thermal Ceramics K-26 insulating fire brick to build the forge you have now. I strongly suggest changing the burner's position. Placing it near the back of the forge will put the HOT spot a long way from the opening. This isn't a bad set up if you're heat treating as the rest of the chamber will be fairly uniform temp, just not so hot. You also want to pull the torch nozzle out of the forge! As deep in the forge as shown in your pics it WILL burn up when the forge gets hot. Alignment is important too, as shown it's aimed directly at the far wall and too close. That spot is the only place that will get very hot. If you mount your burner closer to the doorway no farther than about 1/3 the length of the chamber, the hot zone will be closer to the door where you can use it more easily. Aiming the burner is a must, especially for small burners. drill the burner port higher on the side and aim it downwards so the flame hits the floor at an angle so it forms a strong swirl up the far wall over the top and back down the burner ort side. This will put the elongated hot spot on the floor where you can reach it easily but the flame running up and over will heat the area more effectively by recirculating the flame over the same place at least once. Make sense? Last alignment tip angle the flame so the swirl travels backwards towards the far end, just a LITTLE. This will allow the flame to pass over the HOT spot on it's way around but it will get out of the way and travel down the forge transferring energy to the forge wall as it goes. This will bring the rest of the forge to a bit higher temp than it does now and remove as much energy (heat) from the flame as reasonably practical. Of course you COULD build a forge with a ceramic blanket insulating layer, hard refractory flame face layer and a good kiln wash but you'd need a proper burner to make it worth the effort. Your present forge with some tweaks will serve well until you want to build a T burner then it will ROCK. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronSeiger Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 Frosty: First step is throw those bricks for the hills. angle torch nozzle towards the floor to create a spiral flame. move torch nozzle to the front of the forge. mangle torch head towards back of forge slightly. i just ordered myself some soft fire brick. Hopefully it doesn’t show up broken… hopefully this will get er done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Keep the hard brick. They make fairly good doors. Soft brick does have a tendency to crack and break after repeated heating and cooling. Consider designing your shell to allow some compression. Note: when it finally gets hot any gaps in your insulation will really show up in the metal skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 I didn't notice until after I posted my reply but your first step is to NOT tag people's names. The forum doesn't use tags and it messes the works up for admin to go in and straighten out. No sweat, it happens a lot when folk first join the forum but it does put you on the moderator's radar ad a low profile is a good profile. Don't toss those firebricks, hang onto them there are things they're good for, just not inside a forge. You already have your forge resting on them and if you stack a couple in front of the opening to make a fire proof "porch" you'll be able to rest long stock on it while heating in the forge. Also you'll be able to lay brick on edge and partially close the opening retaining the flame longer in the chamber and the facing face will become heated and re-radiate IR back into the forge. This is called a "Thermal Baffle" and is a sweet trick. Mikey describes the how and why of them better than I. They're well worth setting up for if you decide to use them. Don't order just ANY insulating firebrick some will not stand up to forge temps, Morgan k-26 are the only ones I know for sure are suitable without costing an arm and leg. You did good, all it needs is a few tweaks. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronSeiger Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 I picked some up from on line Apologies on the tags! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 The 2,600f rated ones I hope! Those are full thickness and it looks like you used 1 1/4" "split" brick in your forge. You can cut soft firebrick with a hand saw, a worn out dull one from a 2nd hand shop works just fine. No need to apologize about the tags, they're used all over the web. Stopping is all anybody here asks, it's all good. Heck there's plenty of time left to edit your posts, you could put a real smile on the mods faces and edit the tags out! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 You may also want to order some plistex to coat the soft bricks. That will drive the temperature up even more and add some protection to the bricks. It’s available on this site in reasonable quantities. Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronSeiger Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 I was wondering if there was a compound I could put over the bricks. This would allow my bricks to withstand a higher temp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Not the bricks you have now, not enough longer to do much good that is. If you're asking about the ones you just ordered, buy some Plistex from the IFI store, mix it to latex paint consistency and cover the fire sides of the brick. Wet the brick before you apply the Plistex. This is called "buttering" and is an important step in getting masonry, mortars, cement and products like Plistex to bond properly. You'll have to let the fire brick dry thoroughly before getting them to forging temperature. An hour in a 230f oven AFTER the Plistex is completely dried will do it nicely. Water isn't going to soak into even insulating fire brick very deep. Just spritz or brush the water on, no need to dip it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Plastix is an IR reflective coating. It improves forge effecency/temp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 And is excellent protection against heated borax damaging your hew bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronSeiger Posted October 11, 2022 Author Share Posted October 11, 2022 I appreciate everyone’s input on my thread. As a gunsmith I’ve dabbled into the engraving world along with now getting into blacksmithing (mainly the Bladesmithing aspect) and I feel like the communities around engraving and Blacksmithing are some of the kindest people you will ever meet! Along with forums like these being extremely beneficial to beginners like myself! Thank you to everyone for the information -Cameron S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 You're welcome, it's our genuine pleasure to assist a new addict into the craft. If you have more questions please feel free to ask away. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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