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I Forge Iron

No Spring Chicken Here!


TLeeBlanq

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In retrospect. believe the first year of unsupervised attendance of the local blacksmith shop would have been about 1948. My parents were business owners in a small town in Oklahoma, and I a townie, barefoot and free to roam the (small) downtown area. Therefore often frequent local blacksmith shop run by 2 brothers. (In small towns of yesteryear, everbody knew everyone, and got on to them(just like their own) if they got out of line.)

The coal forge was on the east wall of the building with a walk access door immediate on the south side. I seem to recall both a manual crank and electric driven blower device, but too many years to nail down.  The building ventilation was through a large door on the south end, and another at the north east corner where the ag type equipment was brought inside for repairs. The inside was somewhat dark or smutty, from coal smoke I suppose.

Directly in front of the forge was the anvil mounted on a stump (think) and directly across on the west side of the building was a wooden swing mounted by chains to the ceiling where I would park my young hiney, usually swigging on an RC Cola or strawberry Nehi, and munching on Acme potato chips. I was cautioned never to look at the light of the electric welder which was used quite a bit in the back. Going back in later years and revisiting sites, find they were not as large as they originally seemed to be. The shop was probably less than 24 feet wide and no more than 40 feet in length. The swing provided ring side seat for all the action of the man with the hammer. After proper heating in the coals, the "piece" was placed on the anvil, and the smith massaged it normally less than 2 minutes before putting back into the fire or quenching. (Am somewhat hazy here, but think that pretty much the extent of the process.) 

Did move away from the area before reaching the age of majority, and did acquire a few skills that were marketable during my earning years. Originally, I was trained as an autobody repairman, this so far back, 60/40 lead was used in the repair of auto metals. Over a period of years, certain degree of proficiency was acquired in welding- gas, electric Stick/MIG/TIG in ferrous and non-ferrous metals. Also several courses were completed in the metallurgical field. 

I did not get try blacksmithing until quite late in life and found my upper body strength lacking (diminished) and not able to swing the iron as well as needed(chronic Illness.)

What am I doing here? Specifically, insight and learning on developing casting/furnace building for use in smelting of lead (bullets) and various other metals for casual purposes. (I have a set of "new" aluminum heads that never made it to an engine as were damaged by forest fire while sitting in the garage near Paige Texas.) Life has been fun. 

 

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Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

I hope you stick around.  The discussions are pretty free wheeling and don't always directly relate to blacksmithing.  You are welcome to join in whereever and whenever you care to.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

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 Welcome aboard TLee, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you'll have a better chance of meeting up with members living within visiting distance.

You might be surprised at how welcome non-participating visitors are at blacksmith gatherings and meetings. There are a number of regulars at our meetings who've never picked up a hammer at a meeting, there's always plenty of potluck.  

Join in, new knowledge is always welcome and we enjoy good stories. You've done enough to have some really good ones.

Like puns?:) Frosty The Lucky.

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In a way, you have a real advantage if you do decide to pursue smithing further. Far too many younger smiths (among whom I count my younger self, alas) tend to focus on brute strength to move metal, which is an easy path to inefficiency and injury. Taking brute strength off the table removes that particular temptation.

Instead, what you need to focus on is technique. If you watch an older smith moving a lot of metal quickly with an apparent minimum of effort, it's not because they're stronger than they look: it's because they've gotten really good at hitting the metal in exactly the right way to produce the desired effect. While a certain amount of practice is inevitable if you want to gain that experience, at least you don't have to worry about developing bad habits that are (initially) masked by the (apparent) success of mere muscle.

If you're looking to take some classes or a workshop, you might want to look into those taught by or geared towards women. There has been a great growth in recent years in the number of women interested in smithing, and since women on the whole tend to have somewhat less upper-body strength than men*, many teachers and schools have been actively structuring their instruction accordingly; Caitlin Morris (of Ms. Caitlin's School of Blacksmithing in Maryland) springs to mind as an example. An instructor who is used to tailoring their teaching to accommodate differences in physical ability could be enormously helpful in getting you set up with a foundation of solid technique. 

 

*Very broadly speaking; there are naturally exceptions and individual variations in both men and women. 

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No rule says you need a 4# hammer, tho I can swing a 3# most of the day I actually use a 2# in my day job (farrier). Longer handles, better technique and properly dressed hammers will move a surprising amount of metal. 
I use 3# 1/2 round cross and strait peins over the horn. This allows me to move a lot of metal quick. Sharper peins and anvil edges really help to set down and isolate areas for efficient work.  
work smarter not harder is a thing, we used to laugh at the “old men” fallowing the shade around the job sight. Now we are the old men. 
south center Al Oklahoma ramblings…

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I haven't swung heavier than 32oz in years. except in special circumstances. Though I do have a 40oz. AKA 2 1/2lb.  cross pein, I was given the head at a yard sale years ago and a slab handle made it easy to swing. Technique, hammer type and accuracy lets me move steel well enough to make me happy and not make my old joints ache.  I have a 8lb double jack sledge handy for stubborn stock when I have a striker. 

There are ways and work arounds for virtually everything and blacksmiths are traditionally the people who invent: Faster, Easier, Better, Cheaper methods. 

Forging copper wire with a 4oz ball pein is satisfying to the soul. Honest.

Frosty The Lucky.

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17 hours ago, George N. M. said:

Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

I hope you stick around.  The discussions are pretty free wheeling and don't always directly relate to blacksmithing.  You are welcome to join in whereever and whenever you care to.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Thanks for the Welcome aboard. Have been up in Wyoming several times and strongly considered the state as the go-to get-away place for multiple reasons. But as Mama has 2 votes to my 1 in any major decision, anything other than the coast of Texas ruled out as (probable) last known address. We have yet to make the jump from the Piney Woods of East Texas, and the present  upward trend  of property cost down that way in the last year has dulled (my interest) significantly. I favor the Wyoming positive attitude and posture concerning business activities. It would seem to encourage such through less onerous taxation, fewer hoops (busy work) red tape requirements to secure licensure in various bus structures. And  one does not have to run the AC 9 months out of the year. Thanks Again.

 

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On 10/5/2022 at 10:18 AM, ThomasPowers said:

Well I've know professional smiths still a-working in their 80's and hobby smiths still doing some hammering in their 90's so hopefully you still have a few years left in you to enjoy the craft!

Thank You Thomas for the positive remarks. Regarding "craft," today decided to revive an old pickup to hopefully to see me through the now visible "hard times' that upon us. (I will leave out causation at this juncture.) When running it was noisy, unkempt in appearance, and well shop worn. It has carried me over multiple western states, finally coming to rest in the Woods of east Texas. I do know if the old fuel drained and replaced with fresh, a new battery installed it will fire and run. Another reason for the resurrection, is that most are not familiar with the 1982 Volkswagen Rabbit Pickup, diesel powered vehicle which is quite rare (if one would want such a beast.)  What does that have to do with craft. Well, sometime before I became the owner of said compression ignition vehicle, some enterprising previous owner cut out the back portion of the cab down to the bed level and installed an elevated fiberglass topper over the bed. (Am not sure if it was used as rolling house or what, but did have carpet at one time.) Anyway, back on track here, said truck has been languishing in the open since 2007(last inspection sticker) with the bed angled downward to drain off the rainwater. So will now cut out a section of a roof panel from decommissioned late 80's ford pickup (metal thickness similar) and fabricate back cab panel of approximately 51" wide and 16" in height including several transverse complex angles at window height. I do expect there to be significant number of unkind heathen words flung at the idiot who thought up the idea to cut out the back of the cab (or the other idiot that would buy such a vehicle.)

Thomas, this is where I will do much hammering (albeit the weight of said hammer in ounces) with occasional use of one with cojones, goodly amount of grinding, use of plasma cutter and MIG, boo-coo shrinking, much cussing, strengthening of the panel surface to prevent "booming" by use of bead roller, probably(more than)some drinking, loss of hair, skin and gnashing of teeth. I will enjoy seeing the "endgate" of the project though. 

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TLee, we retired to Laramie a few years ago and love it.  My wife is originally from FL and when I told her the all time record high in Laramie is 94 degrees and she will never see triple digit temperatures again unless we travel to them she had a hard time processing those facts.  She and her late husband lived much of their lives in the southern US and experienced the kind of heat and humidity that you get in E. TX.  You are right about WY being business friendly.  Also, no state income tax and no sales tax on unprepared food.

There are downsides such as the winters.  I have never found them that hard but they can get long.  The wind does blow.  And, this is a plus or minus depending on the person but this is a deep red state although there are more crazies around now who believe the wilder conspiriacy theories most folk are fairly pragmatic conservstives.

Laramie has been a goldielocks place for us, particularly compared to where we came from, Ft. Morgan, CO which is a town of about 10k on the NE prairies of CO about halfway between Denver and NE on I-76.  We have good access to outdoor recreation, cultural things at the Univ. of WY, better shopping than Ft. Morgan, and if we need anything from a bigger town, e.g. a big box store like Home Depot or Lowes, Cheyenne and Ft. Collins, CO are about 45 minutes and and hour away resopectively.  It has worked out excellently for us and my wife, Madelynn, has fallen in love with Wyoming in general and Laramie in particular.

My late wife's 2 brothers are near Tyler, TX and when we have visited it was interesting but I would never live in that part of the world, particularly during the hot months. Apologies to eveyone living south of about 40 degrees latitude.  I got my fill of heat and humidity growing up close to Lake Michigan in Chicago and the time I spent in Panama and Viet Nam. 

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

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14 hours ago, Frosty said:

You might be surprised at how welcome non-participating visitors are at blacksmith gatherings and meetings. There are a number of regulars at our meetings who've never picked up a hammer at a meeting, there's always plenty of potluck.  

Join in, new knowledge is always welcome and we enjoy good stories. You've done enough to have some really good ones

Hey Frosty, Thanks for the Invite. Have only been up your way "way-up-high" above 35K feet at 600+MPH on the way to China. Do reside most of the time in the Piney Woods of East Texas, although hold title( read pay ^^ taxes) in several places I seldom visit. Do have an acquaintance I used to play music with (bluegrass band) in central Texas that was former County Clerk in said Texas who now spends summers in your fair state (probably)to escape  humidity down this way. Do hold some stock on the north slope up your way in exploration of that nasty out-of-favor crude products. It should be getting cold enough soon for seasonal work to begin as I understand it. However, it right off Dalton highway.

The place where I "stays" is rather remote, but folks seem to be moving in - from everywhere! I do have some stories, some kinda hard to believe, several surprised I made it through, and a couple I can not tell (as some of the actors are still alive.)

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If you make it up this way give me a shout I'll introduce yo to the club if we're having a meeting while you're here. If you're flying over on the way elsewhere wave out the window I'll tell you I waved back. :)

Fros6ty The Lucky

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On 10/5/2022 at 1:55 PM, Charles R. Stevens said:

No rule says you need a 4# hammer, tho I can swing a 3# most of the day I actually use a 2# in my day job (farrier). Longer handles, better technique and properly dressed hammers will move a surprising amount of metal. 
I use 3# 1/2 round cross and strait peins over the horn. This allows me to move a lot of metal quick.  
work smarter not harder is a thing, we used to laugh at the “old men” fallowing the shade around the job sight. Now we are the old men. 
south center Al Oklahoma ramblings…

Hey Guy: Had to look up Bradley as did not recall it. Now I got it. Do you remember the vehicle up in a tree just east of Chickasha (would have been where hwy 92 dead ends into the E/W hwy on the south side of the road.) Yeah I kinda' got around Grady County some. The Rush Springs used to have some of the best watermelons around. 

Actually having L3-L4 and L5 fused  together in lower back in 2019 has cut down on my frisking around much. Surgeon did not repair the break up high, just left it alone. And I not going through that again... 

See in another of your post remarking about fellow in uniform reminded me of an older fellow the wife used to work for before we got together. He was kind of an no BS fellow and a hoot. One time after we both had several libations, I brought out a semi-auto pistol for him to look at. It turned out he trained on that series in the military and was already in country prior to the June 44 invasion as was dropped behind the lines to create havoc. He told me about almost getting into a fight on a bus in England years later going to reunion as was wearing a particular beret/hat of sorts/ and couple fellows on the bus took exception as only certain war veterans were supposed to wear. And they doubted his credibility- for a bit. He was one of the Darbey's ? Rangers. 

Will get this posted as laptop has began bad habit of locking up after long stretch. Yeah, I know Grady County. LOL

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On 10/5/2022 at 9:42 AM, TWISTEDWILLOW said:

Howdy from eastern Oklahoma! An welcome to the forum!

I had a nice long reply typed up last night to you and then the laptop froze and lost it all. So, will try to recall and just hit the high spots. 

As a young man did acquire a skill in the autobody field, which at that time, a great deal of effort was made to "repair" metal rather than toss in the bin. For a period of time, lived in Norman and plied trade at auto dealership, and most of my fellow employees were "Native American" as they are called now. I worked and partied with the same folk. Usually I would drive as the Indian is not known for holding his "liker." And I usually drove better/paid more attention to my driving when drinking as knew if stopped, it would not go well. Recall one time after full evening of enjoyment, was directed by "Shorty" to certain location (which now would be somewhere under Lake Thunderbird east of town. (This about 3AM) and we proceeded to wooded area where a "fire" was being held by local tribe. We fell out of the car, and I tailed Shorty as figured he must be known and I surely was not. Long story short, I was the lightest skinned pony at the roundup. As I was his guest, was accepted and no one confronted. He said there was trouble within the tribe and there were 2 different fires (we made both) and by that time I was nearly sober. Got in about 9AM Sunday Morning and was the Missus hacked. Gonna post before this locks up. Not at all the story from last night.

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12 hours ago, TWISTEDWILLOW said:

Interesting story for sure, im creek an Cherokee, im not involved with to much tribal stuff though,

I don’t go out to Norman ever that’s out west, im in the eastern part of the state close to Arkansas,

"Shorty" in the story was Creek, about 30 years my senior. Was looking real hard at property in extreme SE part of OK as has weather pattern/climate/temps there that does not exist in rest of state. Even went to land sale in Idabel (think) but did not buy. 

You mention traveling the seven seas. Is that of your own doing, or military service? Recall one of the trips  to Dominican Republic where cruise ship was escorted (placed) between ship and Island of Cuba for the entire area, a Coast Guard Cutter. Surmise that to intercept any fleeing Cubanos. Would like to do some casual sailing in a pocket cruiser in the ICW or hang out in Florida in the winter , but wife (and I am now beginning to) think am getting too old for such rigors. Take Care, keep your head down, don't volunteer, and stay well. 

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On 10/5/2022 at 9:18 AM, ThomasPowers said:

Well I've know professional smiths still a-working in their 80's and hobby smiths still doing some hammering in their 90's so hopefully you still have a few years left in you to enjoy the craft!

Thank you Thomas for getting back. I am going to have to live quite a while to get finished as projects seem to multiply. I do not have an anvil per se, but rather a railroad test section of "road" rail which still able to drag around. Having been trained as an autobody repairman way back, was taught the practice of actually shaping and repairing metal. The hammers used are very light compared to the Smith. 

Where in the central part of NM are you located? I was entertaining purchasing in McKinley County for a QOZ/QOF project and it still on my mind if not active. Called the County Clerk in Catron County after annual land sale to see if any did not sell (they usually holding property) but this year EVERYTHING sold.  TLee

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TLee,  in case you didn't know I am an old County Attorney and have been around delinquent tax sales for a long time.  I am most familiar with how the system works in Colorado but other states are generally similar.  Without going into details, there is usually a reason that a piece of property becomes delinquent on property taxes.  Often, because it is worth less than the taxes owed for various reasons.  Any actual useful properties are usually either redeemed by the owners or their creditors or purchased by speculators to either be an investment which can pay a handsome return if the original owner redeems it by paying the back taxes plus a stautory interest rate or if there is no redemption to get a Treasurer's Deed and sell it off.  Only very occasionally does someone end up with a good piece of property for a song.  It has happened but it is not the common outcome.  A person can make a good return at a tax sale but I have seen quite a few folk end up with property that is not worth what they had to pay of it or has some sort of bad liability, such a toxic contamination, associated with it.

In Colorado, anything that is not sold for the back taxes plus the advertising fee is "struck off to the County."  This means the county holds the tax lien.  I think this is what you were referring to as what was unsold.  Occasionally, the county will obtain a Treasurer's Deed but more often after a certain number of years the tax lien can be abandoned.

Interesting enough, in Colorado a Treasurer's Deed extinguishes all other interests in the land such as liens and easements.

Tax sales can be an opportunity but like any opportunity there are risks and land mines for the incautious and inexperienced. 

GNM

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Hi George: No, I did not know of your legal background. There was  a lot of land that had built up on the various counties "struck off" properties in multiple states that were put back into private ownership this year (2022). The counties in the state of Arkansas had so many in their back pocket that the auctions have gone on for months, usually 2 days per week. I discarded all my various county states record developments of the states in which there was an interest except for Arkansas in event I am audited and required to prove-up my activities to the IRS. In review it was relatively easy to see the effects that illegal drugs have had in some tax districts. There were significant number of "crack house" properties in multiple states, and suspect the drug has decimated multiple counties tax base, I recall years ago while doing some DD on a possible (TLC) Tax Lien Certificate in Arizona, physical examination of said property after reviewing legal description that situs was under public road (city street) while showing to be held in private hands (to bolster your remarks about values and inaccuracies.) Yes, there is a lot of junk out there. I have purchased/held (TLC) in  Arizona and make some profit (15%simple) at the time. 

My very small study of various state postures and proceedings suggest significant disparity in getting real property back into private hands. Forget the name of the state now(think it was in the eastern U.S.) had very short redemption window, and a one shot deal. And at one time, Liens conveyed (not extinguished)in New Mexico!! I think that has been changed. N.M. has funky business posture I.M.O. 

In a few years from now (6-7) to be more specific, we will again see a large build-up of public held land due to the present direction taken by current administration. Not much was learned from the relaxed or reduced "down payment and qualification requirements" of early 2000's and we will see it again as many will walk because they overbought with little vested interests. 

Yes George, I do watch the mail daily anticipating Final Decree from presiding judge in another state on a Probate case that has been going on since 2015. It has been a learning experience. The timetable would have been considerably shorter except for CV-19 interruption and my reluctance to travel (out of state)to court during the event. Did accept responsibility of Conservator and ward lived to onset of Covid at which point I halted proceedings after filing DC and LW&T in court. As I was named (alternate) Executor (everyone else had died off)  slow walked until judge called status hearing which in essence flushed me out. So, long story tad shorter, proceeded Pro Se, as Judge could not force use his esteemed colleagues in the process other than G.A.L. which was appointed D.A. 

I have noticed with interest that some counties, within some states, interpret state law (the same written word) differently, to some degree. It is the same with insurance companies. I called one Carrier's hand (at the state level) on an issue, and their response- Yeah, you are right, but until we go to court, we will do---.  

And some allow County Commissioner (CC) subsequent disposal of (annual) unsold properties, subject to (CC) approval with buyer paying printing of advertisements in local paper. 

Enough Palaver

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12 hours ago, TLeeBlanq said:

You mention traveling the seven seas. Is that of your own doing, or military service

Yes I was in the Navy, 

George,

7 hours ago, George N. M. said:

there is usually a reason that a piece of property becomes delinquent on property taxes

here they auction the properties off on the steps of the courthouse if the property tax goes unpaid for 3 years,

ive know a few people that bought properties that went over on their taxes, 

your right they are normally pretty bad shape in a lot of cases the houses are in unsalvageable condition,

An crack heads ruin other houses with their meth labs,

Also I know of two places that used to be landfills way back before any regulations and inspections, one was for a town the other for county and both places are chuck full of ol car batteries, chemicals and lord knows what else, 

I think the current land owners are grandfathered in an safe but any new property owners would be required to dig it all up an properly dispose of the waste, or something like that

ive heard the same thing about buying a old service station around here, 

If you buy property that has an old rundown service station and there’s old tanks still in the ground DEQ will pay you a visit and make you dig em up and they test the soil for leakage, it can get really expensive really quick!

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13 hours ago, TWISTEDWILLOW said:

If you buy property that has an old rundown service station and there’s old tanks still in the ground DEQ will pay you a visit and make you dig em up and they test the soil for leakage, it can get really expensive really quick!

The states I have looked at normally takes 6-7 to unwind through the system. Due to the crowd of folk at the sales this year,  held inside with seating, cards with numbers issued, cash money paid before you leave the building.

xxx

I make it a practice during DD that if a building such as garage or SS. go to the said state Environmental control group as they usually have lists of those that have fouled and have the attention of the authorities.

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On 10/5/2022 at 9:56 AM, JHCC said:

IInstead, what you need to focus on is technique. If you watch an older smith moving a lot of metal quickly with an apparent minimum of effort, it's not because they're stronger than they look: it's because they've gotten really good at hitting the metal in exactly the right way to produce the desired effect.

Thanks JHCC for getting back.  The last real restructuring on metal of any thickness was on (then) new  ZTR mower that I could not keep mower drive belt on. I suspect that at the factory the wrong idler pulley / engagement pulley "Arm" was installed and after multiple reinstalls, removed the whole mowing system, laid down beside it, pondered at length, and decided to rework  the Arm changing running heights/angle of the belt as directed to cutter quill. It was worked cold over railroad iron as metal thickness nearly 1/4 inch and enough meat to bear the effort. Did take some beans to get metal moved. Reinstalled and have had no more problems in that area.

Unfortunately, I never had much technique and tried to out-horse it. And yes, it "no-workee" anymore. Suspect earlier lifestyle/ mindset partially if not primary  reason for multiple failures in spine. Recall more than once hoisting 220V AC window units over heat solo. Did not weight more than 150pds at the time, that was when I (thought) I was invincible as well as incorrigible.

I have taken a few classes during the years. The "earliest" formal training began in 1961 and was issued hammers, dollies, slapping hammer(for shrinking metal) taught the black art (lol) of using 60/40 lead in autobody panel repair. Over the years have attained a certain degree of skill in the workings of some metals. However, it a lifetime of learning and one never learns it all. 

I do have a lot of bad habits. Enjoy them all. (messing here.) A few in my blacksmithing class did get a guided tour of the San Diego shipyards. That was quite a treat as they do nothing in a small way (such as a (plasma)water cutting table for plate steel ^1" thick larger size than foundation of a big house with overhead gantry.

Usually have had a good relationship with mentors as would try push the welding machine to limits (as well as my own) doing things it may not have been designed to do. Recall taking metallurgy class and CWI preparation studies under former AWS president who was a hoot. 

It has been my observation that females are more suited for finite skilled repetitive tasks than men. Another observation about women-they don't just get mad, they get even!

 

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