Steven Bronstein Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I have a 100# Fairbanks that went through a fire. It appeared to weather the fire pretty well, unfortunately it was outside (under a tarp) for a year while I rebuilt. The shaft will not turn ( I am not really sure if could be turned then). So now, I am not sure if the shaft rusted/welded itself to the steel bushing. I removed all of the other parts and they all look good with no obvious distortions. even the brass bushings on the pitman look good. I have been dripping PB Blaster into the oil ports for a year and tapping regularly but no luck. The oil does seem to eventually flow away into the oil hole. Since this machine does not have pillow blocks I cannot just lift it off. I am considering buying a 1,000,000 btu weed burner to heat up the whole shaft head assembly. There is a 5" cast steel outer casting holding a 3" diameter steel bushing which the shaft goes through. I am wondering if I make an enclosure/forge around the head with kaowool and use the weedburner to heat the space will I get all of that mass hot enough to expand the parts enough to make a difference. I was opening to heat/cool/oil and repeat until I can get it to move. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I would be wary of using heat. Before doing that I would make a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone. It is way better than PB Blaster in freeing up rusted parts. Maybe a picture of the frozen shaft would help. I'm not familiar with the Fairbanks hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Good Morning Steve, I was just remembering how a frozen water line was/is unthawed (doesn't work on plastic pipe). Connect a stick welder negative to one end, connect the positive to the other end. Crank the current down low. Turn the welder on and slowly adjust the current up, until water flows. Why can't you do something similar to the seized shaft, warm it up to break the rust free. No Flame!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 The hammer probably has babbit bearings which may have melted in the fire. I have seen Fairbanks hammers before but cant conjure up a visual of the problem area you are having. Can you post any pictures? Another place you can ask is at the practical machinist antique tool forum. Sorry that I can't post a link to it here as it is not allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Bronstein Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 not babbits, steel bushing. Good idea on the antique forum my concern with using electricity is it could heat the shaft first, expand it and then crack the casting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Rather than heating the casings you can try chilling the shaft with dry ice. You can insulate with fiberglass and hold it against the shaft with a trash bag. You want the blocks warmer than the shaft so they expand away from the shaft. The shaft shrinking away from the blocks is the same thing. A little creative carpentry with plywood and you can heat sand in the oven to a safe temperature say 350-400f and pour it around the blocks to warm ONLY them. Perhaps combine the two. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Bronstein Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 Thanks Frosty, There is so much shaft inside the bushings I wonder how much cold would be transmitted. I would not have thought that 400 deg F would be enough to expand the cast steel and interior bushings. I always assumed that it had to be 1000 deg or more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoGoodWithUsernames Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Surprisingly enough it doesn't take much heat. From rebuilding a few VW engines and putting the cam drive gear back onto the crank a coffee cup warmer usually did the trick. I think I would use a damp rag in the freezer and wrap that around the end of the crank while the gear was heating up. That little bit of difference was enough it would slide right on and lock up solid once the temp evened out. Obviously you're on a much bigger scale than a little VW crankshaft, so don't drop any of that on your toes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Think of a wagon tyre; if you heat it to glowing it will char/burn the wood and stay loose, you heat to 500 to 600 degF and you can slide it on the wheel and quench it tight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 After seeing the picture I think I would attempt to use heat on the bearing areas and have a long bar clamped to the flywheel for added leverage. Do you have a rosebud type heating tip? As noted above, it does not take much heat and I don't think any cooling of the shaft would be required. The transfer of heat between the two parts would be slow enough that the shaft would not get warm enough to expand much. You may find that a bar on the flywheel and more penetrating type oils (my favorite is Kroil) might work without any heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Oh Lordy NO, NOT 1,000f! Red heat can actually change the size and possibly shape of the blocks permanently! I don't know if a couple hundred degrees will be enough seeing as it's rusted together and freeing up small section might be enough to relieve the tension without freeing the shaft and bushings. It won't take a lot though, especially if you can chill the shaft. Being short makes it easier to apply dry ice by packing the ends, the pully and crank plates will provide a lot of contact and conduct heat from the shaft nicely. Better, they're close to the blocks and bushings. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Bronstein Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 Got it, sounds like a large weedburner head will be enough heat. I like the idea of on the outside and then dropping dry ice on the shaft. Gazz, that was my thought. I have two 1/2" bolts that I tapped into the center area of the pulley. I thought to lay the machine on its side and attach a lever to the bolts so I can bounce the shaft while heating and cooling. Hope it works. Thanks All Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Keep us in the loop please. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Just a suggestion but could you use something on the nature of a gear puller (or pusher) to put lateral force on the shaft rather than just rotational force? Also, I second the suggestion of a 50/50 blend of automatic transmission fluid and acetone as a penetrating oil. I have seen tests where it works as well or better than the best commercial penetrants. And a lot cheaper, too. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Do I see the shaft in between the two bearings or is that some kind of shaft tunnel? What is the part that looks to be attached to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Bronstein Posted August 24, 2022 Author Share Posted August 24, 2022 There is a loose metal sleeve over the exposed shaft section between the two bushings. I think it is there to allow some safety separation from the spinning shaft. I caulked each end closed and added that vertical pipe to be a penetrating oil resevoir so that oil could flow towards where the shafts enter the bushings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Bronstein Posted August 25, 2022 Author Share Posted August 25, 2022 George N.M - I threaded two 1/2" bolts into the face of the pulley and I will first try to pull the pulley off with a porta bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 I have tried ATF and acetone and found that they do not mix, like oil and vinegar salad dressing. Maybe it's the type of ATF I used I don't know but what i tried didn't work so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 The old Dexron III ATF for GM vehicles is what I use an it mixes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 Large shaft puller? If you have a turned shaft and the pully/flywheel have 2 or 3 equally bolt holes that’s what they are designed for. sorry old mechanic. I have rebuilt the transfer case and rear differential as well as replaced the steadying wheel on my Samurai this summer. The old Bering puller set has had a work out! speaking of automotive. I have used the freezer and oven trick more than once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 Dexron ATF and acetone mixes like Scotch and water. Doesn't taste as good though I COULD be wrong I've never tasted ATV and acetone. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 Wait, what? Your not supposed to drink it?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Bronstein Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 I am going to try pulley the pulley with a porta bar attached to the two bolts I tapped into the inner rim of the pulley. hope 10 tons is sufficient. Wondering if I should heat first, hesitating because it will make attaching the porta bar a little more challenging when the pulley is 500 degrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Which, scotch and water or ATF and acetone? I'd say that's a definite yes and no. eh? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 Still stuck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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