Cooter7 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 I've been having issues getting my frosty t burners tuned. I have a foot or more dragons breath coming out the front. Nozzles are centered, .035, I have tried long all the way down to super short, I am running stainless 1:12 flares. I slid them up the burner tube and got slightly better results, doesn't matter if I'm running 1 or 2 burners, roughly 6x11 chamber, if I remove all fire bricks I get dragons breath out the front and back, tried 5-15 psi, 2 in kaowool, satanite, plistix 900f. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter7 Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 This is with the burner flares recessed 1" into the kaowhool PXL_20220817_022349389.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Pull the burners back until they barely penetrate through shell, only about 1/4" or so into the ceramic blanket refractory. My forge running single nozzle burners has 2" of ceramic blanket and about 1/2" of castable refractory for a total of 2 1/2" of liner. The burners are about 2 3/8" from the interior. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter7 Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 Just tried pulling them back farther and the only thing it changed was making the burner holder alot hotter but still had the dragons breath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Please don't use the @ to tag names the Iforge OS doesn't use them like a social media platform. They just cause problems the mods have to dig into the software to correct. You aren't in any kind of trouble, just please don't tag names, okay? How many cubic inches is the volume of your forge? I don't do the arithmetic any more but my eyeball says that's a 1 burner forge. Two will cause problems with back pressure. That is just an eyeball guess, calculate the interior volume and we'll know for sure. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter7 Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 Sorry won't use that didn't know it caused issues. It is 311 cubic inches. It still gets about 6" of dragons breath with a single burner. Would plugging the second burner with some kaowool make a difference over just leaving the one off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Pull one and block the holder with kaowool flush with the interior. See how that works. Stop worrying about dragon's breath till we get your burner adjusted, it's a symptom, not a problem. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter7 Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 Ok I'm just turning in for the night. I'll give it a try in the morning and report back. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 You're welcome, it's my pleasure. I'm ready for some shut eye too. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter7 Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 Alright I just pulled a burner and plugged the hole. These new pictures are of 1 single burner running 1 pic is cold the other 2 are after heating up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Frosty, I think he has two main issues. You caught the the probability that he only needs one burner of that size for in this forge.But it is also probable that his refractory binder is cooking off, and making those orange, and opaque yellow flames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Frosty and Mike are the experts, and there is certainly a possibility that the refractory is still outgassing. However, if time at elevated temperature doesn't take care of that, I would look into reducing the size of the orifice in the mig tip used (though the flame picture looks pretty good to me). You should also confirm that the orifice has no distortion or burrs from getting cut or sanded back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter7 Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 How long does it usually take to burn of all the binder? I'm more than happy to just let it run for a while if that's what it needs. Since the last coating I've had probably 5 full heat cycles. I can also try getting some smaller mig tips. I have double checked the ones in it and there is no bur and orifice is nice and straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 That will depend on how high and how long at a time you run that forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 I'm thinking it's still rich. The dragon's breath from the front looks almost soft and billowy! That's usually a sign of really rich. Perhaps the burner is picking up exhaust gasses. You DO have a CO monitor/alarm don't you? These things can do you real harm, especially if they're running rich. Carbon Monoxide is no joke dangerous stuff! I stopped worrying about orange dragon's breath since switching to Kastolite as my refractory, it'll fade as it oxidizes but may never stop making orange flame completely. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter7 Posted August 19, 2022 Author Share Posted August 19, 2022 How would I go about seeing if it's picking up exhaust glasses? Should I seal off the burner holder to burner tube? I could try shortening the nozzle again didn't seem to help last time though. I don't have a co detector but when it was in the garage it was only ran short times. I now have it set up so it gets set right outside the garage when it's running Ahh ok. Mine is satanite but probably about the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 On 8/17/2022 at 12:27 PM, Latticino said: However, if time at elevated temperature doesn't take care of that, I would look into reducing the size of the orifice in the mig tip used (though the flame picture looks pretty good to me). You should also confirm that the orifice has no distortion or burrs from getting cut or sanded back. Yup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 Deflecting or channeling forge exhaust away from the burners can be a problem. My too large shop forge has top mounted vertical burners and I have to lay sheet steel on it so there are large overhangs over the doorways. A light breeze from the side does it too so long as the breeze doesn't disrupt the burners. If you can trim the mig tips back a little it will lean the burners out. If that isn't enough the next size smaller might be necessary. Is there room in the holder to adjust the alignment of the burners? Aimed more downward might help too. I may not be seeing it clearly enough to have a valid opinion on this but it "looks" like the flame is impinging in the corner between floor and wall than I like. Like I say I may be wrong. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 This brings up a change "who's time has come." Refractory products have improved well past any need to aim burners toward a thick refractory floor. Therefore, aiming burners upward has way more benefits then worries nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 That wasn't the concern, it's the pocket formed by the inside corner and possible detrimental back pressure that caught my eye. It could be inhibiting combustion air induction enough to make an otherwise perfectly tuned burner run rich. Add the shape of the dragon's breath and it has me wondering. Impinging into an inside corner will direct flame sideways along the channel which leads directly out the doorway. That fraction of the flame may not have had enough hang time to finish combustion resulting in the visible dragon's breath. I agree, common refractories have gotten so good we can be pretty casual about how we use them, kiln washes are almost just icing on the cake. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 Agreed. but this particular icing is delicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 Yeah, I L I K E icing. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter7 Posted August 20, 2022 Author Share Posted August 20, 2022 Ill try all that tomorrow and see how it goes thanks again for the help. You guys are awesome. I should have to in the holder to adjust if not I'll pull the fire brick out for testing to see if that's the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 On 8/18/2022 at 6:59 PM, Cooter7 said: How would I go about seeing if it's picking up exhaust glasses? Should I seal off the burner holder to burner tube? Exhaust gases can enter through the burner port (opening in the shell); This is usually obvious by its tube heating up into red incandescence. Exhaust gases can enter through the exhaust opening, when a burner is placed to close to it; this could be the case with your front burner. Shut it down and stuff the opening with ceramic wool between the burner's mixing tube and the port tube. That should show you quite a lot, one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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